Binge Eating, Anxiety, Obsession and Panic

[Tuti]

Faithy my consultant told me that once you mix proteins the Human Growth Hormone stops. That's why we were going 5 hours between meals(proteins). I stand to be corrected because I have been unable, as yet, to confirm this.

Maybe someone on the forum can enlighten us.

Cheers

Tuti

[ropemaha]

who knows??

the info differs so dramatically i reckon.

[Annabelle Joy]

A query for those of you who have been binge eating. Did you do that before the diet (eat a packet of biscuits or a box of chocolates) or is it new behaviour?

AJ

[baloo]

Originally Posted by Annabelle Joy

A query for those of you who have been binge eating. Did you do that before the diet (eat a packet of biscuits or a box of chocolates) or is it new behaviour?

I'm a victim of the binge eating syndrome. I did it before Cohen's and I'm finding it afterwards. For me though it seems to be more of a tactile thing than cravings. I find the urge to crunch and munch. Potato chips, nuts and crackers are my failing these days.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I guess now is a good time to interject something I learned 20 years ago.

I am a long time gout sufferer. However, after 30 years of gout I don't have the telltale large protruding big knuckle in my big toe as is normally associated with the affliction. There is a reason why.

When I first was diagnosed with gout I had a knee the size of a sepak takraw ball after injuring it offshore on a drilling rig. I though it was water on the knee but after them flying me back to Singapore and seeing the company's doctor, I was diagnosed with gout (and apparently had had it for some 10 years misdiagnosed as Tendonitis). I went on medication for a year or two but what I did that was the most important, once I got my uric acid levels back into good ranges was to adjust my diet.

It's now been over 20 years since I've eaten a Sardine (and I love sardines - probably one of the main contributors to my high uric acid levels). I also loved liver (Pig, Calf, Chicken doesn't matter). Also been 20 years since I've tasted them. Same with kidneys. I do not eat any soy products like tofu or milk. As a result of this I don't, except in very rare occasions due to other foodstuffs or injury, get attacks from gout anymore. I still have gout and always will as it's a chemical imbalance in the body that is hereditary.

What I am saying is, like my gout, this diet will expose that which is an affliction for us and we have to recognize it for what it is. The sooner that happens (recognizing it for what it is), the better life will be. As long as we'll continue to try to have something which we know will affect us negatively, we will battle the demons forever and eventually realize only one thing. We will get tired of doing it and start reversing the path we just came down so successfully.

Alcohol seems to be a big factor here. I used to be a big drinker as well. I stayed dry for months on end (on the oil rigs) and came home and every night for the 4 weeks that I was off, drinking normally a 750ml bottle of Jack Black EVERY NIGHT when in Singapore. After the diagnosis, I didn't become a teetotaler but I slowed down considerably (I actually did stop for 2 years). Today, 20 years later, I rarely have a drink even though I have a full bar. I'm lucky to have 6 beers in 6 months. Why? Well, let's just say I like walking better than drinking. There is the key. How do you achieve that state of equilibrium? For me it was stop going to the bars (which I did for those 2 years) now if I go to a bar, I can drink one or 3 or 4 without feeling the need to close the place down. I know when to stop. But better than that, I do stop.

I guess what I'm saying here is you need to make some hard decisions regarding what is good for your health and what isn't. If you cannot control binging, while talking to somebody might help, I think just recognizing that you cannot eat the same things you used to eat is the only way to sort out the problems.

my two cents worth........

[Annabelle Joy]

Great post, SMS. I've always been good at dieting, but after stopping my weight would gradually creep back up again. I've worked out something similar to what you've suggested for myself. I can't go back to eating as I did, and in particular I can't have high carb food several days in succession. When I do, it throws my insulin levels out, I keep eating (craving) the high carb food, and the weight piles back on. For everyone who had a problem with their insulin levels prior to starting the diet, the problem's still there, just waiting for a major injection of carbs to set it off again.

AJ

[kagiesen]

I agree, very good post, SMS. You am convinced you are right. And it makes sense.

There is just one big 'BUT', and that's human frailty, and that's where we need to grow, change. Off course, smokers know it harms them. A lot of doctors smoke. Adolescents think they can live forever, and that's how some of them drive/live. We all heard of someone who dies of lung cancer and didn't smoke, and we have heard of 80 year old chain smokers. What I'm trying to say is: we are very good at fooling ourselves.

People commit crimes, cos the urge (for whatever reason) is bigger than thinking about the consequences. People who are innocent who get interviewed by police in a very pushy way (think of Andrew Mallard), actually CONFESS, cos they don't think about the consequences, or think it will become 'all right'. They just want to be left alone, want to get out of the situation they find confronting, even if it's only a momentary relief.

Learning to procrastinate will help , cos it will teach us to value long term consequences over short term satisfaction.

There are underlying emotional issues for sabotaging ourselves, even if we have the best intentions. Humans do have a tendency to think only about immediate pleasure, and suppress the consequences which will come somewhere down the track, sometimes only 5 mins later. We go and buy things, blowing our budget. It feels good to have it. Then reality sets in, we know we can't really afford it, and then we sweet talk ourselves: I did really need a pair of black shoes, or whatever.

And that applies in a way to binging. If it was just a matter of mind over matter, we would not do it. Cos it doesn't make sense. Lucky those who can change if they must. I guess, the need to change, the bigger that is, the more likely they will stop.

But again, self sabotage is a psychological phenomenon, and if you don't solve the underlying issues, it's gonna be damn hard to stop binging. I am an a learning curve at the moment, and it is getting better. But I hope one day I will not only be able to fight the urge successfully, but actually not have the urge.

Katrin

[ropemaha]

great posts sms, aj, kagiesen....

this is the stuff of quality support guys, good on you for sharing

pen

[hexi2]

Yeh thanks guys for sharing...makes a lot of sense

AJ I have NEVER been a binge eater so this has taken me by surprise

[Annabelle Joy]

Thanks, hexi. I haven't either, not the sort of thing you were doing. Just wondered if it's something I might have to look out for when I finish.

AJ

[pandora]

Hello all! I have been following this thread with a lot of interest and wondering how to put into words an account of my recent experience which i have found very surprising and enlightening! Here goes.

One of my indulgences PRE Cohens was i loved my red wine. Choc never much of an issue but i have primarily been on a LOW CARB DIET (Atkins etc) for approx 7 yrs! Started Cohens 8 Aug and until 1st Nov (time for refeed) i only "indulged" in wine twice. I also have now given up red wine completely. (This is all going somewhere!).

Since early this year i have been trying to keep my weight down with Cohen guidelines but making up my own CARBS ARE EVIL version! This resulted in me gaining 4kg and wanting (but not having@!) white wine most nights. I was finding my egg and veg for breakfast every day since last August until 2 weeks ago - no longer satisfying. also, protein and veg, doing that for yrs PRE Cohens (Cohens is wonderful so not knocking that !!) no longer satisfying me.

Just over 2 wks ago i came to the conclusion i had developed a form of eating disorder around CARBS ARE EVIL and that my body was craving carbs! How scary that was. Since then, i have developed a 3 meals and 3 snacks a day program with carbs at each meal and have lost 2 kilos in 2 weeks, feel like a different and more balanced person, mood swings back under control and wine cravings gone.

My main point here is CARBS are not bad! Dr Cohen on lifestyle allows us to have carbs and your body knows what it needs and if you dont feed it what it needs (after refeed) you will quite possibly binge and feel like a failure! I feel fantastic and cant believe i can eat carbs again after 7 years in my own wilderness! Also, Hexi, when you do introduce carbs into yr body, the initial fluid loss we all get on Cohens causes what looks like weight gain but it does stabilise out and that is normal.

For anyone interested, here is an account of what i have eaten this past 2 days.

Breakfast : muesli and low fat soy milk
snack : banana
lunch : broccoli and cheese baked potato + large salad
snack : fruit and nut mix
dinner : pasta with tomato based sauce and parmesan + broccoli and carrot
snack : 1 cup frozen berries and low fat ice cream

Breakfast : home made bacon egg cheese muffin
snack : nestle diet yoghurt
lunch : home made pizza + large salad
snack : snack size kettle chips
dinner : chicken korma and white rice + large salad
snack : one chocolate and one champagne and 2 almond bread

All small portions of carbs. My body and mind are satisfied. I could never have managed to eat such small portions with big salads etc PRE COHENS. Cohens has helped me learn how to believe in "i can lose the weight" and post Cohens, i can relearn how to listen to my own bodies needs and wants!

I do not recommend ANYONE follow my home made plan as above! Only YOU know what your body needs in balance and moderation. But bottom, line CARBS are not the enemy, we do need them in MODERATION to live a healthy balanced slim lifestyle for LIFE. Pandora

[Annabelle Joy]

Thanks, Pandora. That's interesting. I'm actually eating more carbs now than on my pre-Cohen no gain food. I'm eating all my three fruit a day and up to eight crispbread (usually less). It's really the high GI carbs that I think are the problem, the ones that cause a sharp spike in insulin then a sudden drop.

AJ

[hexi2]

Hey Pandora - I am not saying that all carbs are evil but want to stick to what the doc says to in maintenance and thats 2 serves of carbs at dinner/lunch that is 100gms of pasta/rice/nuts/corn/potato. Other than that it is up to us to test what our bodies can handle. BUT he does give the warning not to have carbs at breakfast or too many carbs in the day otherwise we will revert our bodies into starting up the fat factory...and then it will pile on the weight rapidly and stop our bodies from being able to access stored fat as energy

From what I can read you are not following Cohens?? just your own plan? Are you no longer on the eating plan and going to redo refeed?

[Lonniecee]

Hexi and Faithy, I'm sorry to hear you've been having trouble post refeed.

2 days after I finished refeed I wanted a celebratory dinner with my hubby and boys. I hadn't deviated at all whilst on the prograqmme (34 weeks start to finish) so we went out for Italian which I really wanted (?). Unfortunately the lunch that I purchased wasn't very nice so I threw it away...big achievement that, I don't have to eat it just cos I bought it, (pat on the back, yada yada....) so I bought something 'healthy' from Bakers delight and a choc scone to boot. Ate the 'something healthy (a chees and fetta scroll I think) back at the clinic and than on the way home nibbled (and finished) the scone. Soooooooooo....dinner time and I order entree (aren't I good?) serve fettucine Carbonara and polish that off, as well some garlic bread, half a bottle of wine and a bite of pizza. then we go home and it's on, I'm looking for chocolate, break open the bottle of baileys that I've had waiting for refeed to be over and next morning, voila, 2.5kgs heavier. I was mortified....disappointed and cranky as all hell.

I have always been a savoury tooth but I began to crave sweets. Looking back on that day/evening, I can see it was the craving set off by the scone or scroll and a vicious cycle was set into play. I don't think I was out to reward myself other than the celebration at dinner, but my subconcious seemed to seek it out. I'm still not sure. I am more controlled now and make sure I have snacks of nuts and nut bars. I read the carb content in the nutritional panel of most things I buy. I make myself have some carbs other than those snacks but I limit it to rice and maybe a potato or pasta, and not every day. It is hit and miss. If we eat out I don't have pasta or rice and I don't enjoy chips and fried foods as much as I used too so my tastes have changed. Having take away is now more trouble than cooking myself a Cohen friendly meal. Wraps are pretty much the only take away I'll eat and then I'm evaluating the salad content to make sure I'm getting some veg.

The maintenance guidelines do work if you let them. It is now just over a year since I finished refeed. I'm 10kgs over my finishing weight but I seem to have stabilised at this weight to a degree. Some of that gain is bound to be muscle as I am exercising twice a week now, 1 hour cardio/boxing and 1hour toning. 2 weeks ago I ran, yep ran 4kms non stop in under 24 mins. I have NEVER run 4 kms in my life let alone in that time. I look at my fitness evaluations and I can see the improvement in black and white. I look in the mirror and I see a bit of flab but there is muscle and definition and I'm still wearing size 10. I am stronger and fitter and getting compliments as to how I'm looking and what I am achieving.

I'm trying to tell you not to give up or be disappointed in yourself. We have achieved so much. Many of us do have other emotional triggers at play, I know i do but I'm yet to find out what they all are. I did make some discoveries whilst on the Cohen's journey but there are more I'm sure. I think about seeing someone but it isn't a priority for me right now. I am in control at present but there are days when I feel that the fat girl is just waiting to come out again, the day she starts to rear her ugly head, that will be the day I take myself off to see a professional.

I'm not giving you permission to wreck all your hard work but just give yourself time to adjust to the non restrictive aspect of eating now. It will take time to learn how to make good choices. We are on our own and it is easy to fall back into old patterns but the desire to stay slim and healthy is by far the greater need for me anyway.

Hugs to you both.

Lauren

[hexi2]

Thanks Lauren your input is greatly appreciated.

Well I did manage to binge last night...not to the same degree and this time it was other 'things' I 'have missed' vegemite on toast, jam on toast, some more nut bars (thats is it they have gone no not buying anymore) I felt slightly more in control but the icecream and scones and chinese all accumlated another 1.6 kilos overnight.

I feel I am getting more of a handle on it and I did a bit of reading about eating disorders last night...I actually think what I am experiencing is a sort of normal response after depriving one self of certain foods and I also feel this has got more to do with the pyschological rather than the 'craving' physical response.

So yeh I do have to deal with it...and I will

[ropemaha]

did you google , neural reward pathway?

interesting reading hex...

you will work that off this afternoon in pump, well some of it anyways...but maybe look at it like this, a lot of people get a bit freaked out when they realise something may be 'psychological'. for a lot of people this makes them feel like they arent in control...or going mad or whatever.

the thing is though that if it is 'psychological' you can guarantee it will change...nothing 'psychological' stays constant...so it is sure to evolve...level out...or change course altogether....i mean even people with severe schizophrenia or bipolar have stable periods....regular stable periods....

i am so impressed with your willingness to be so open on this forum about what your eating....cause this means you will over come this quicker and it sure does help others...god your so altruistic ....so good on you.

see you at the gym at 4pm. actually i think this class is quite popular so i am gonna get there about 3.45

pen.

[hexi2]

Ok here is a link to a simple explanation of creating new neural reward pathways

http://www.lifeforceretreats.com/new...ural-pathways/

Makes sense I guess and it recommends it takes 21 days to create a new pathway....I was thinking that perhaps this binging somehow relates to my childhood. I can't remember being rewarded as such with food but I must have been as I have a strong pull to reward my kids with chocolate, lollies, cakes and the like or if they are hurt its like automatic pilot I offer iceacream....it is a really STRONG pull!!! So I guess it comes from childhood.

Anyway...maybe this is why I am 'rewarding' myself with sweet food...something that stems from long ago.

It is helpful to know that it takes 21 days to create a 'new' pathway so I guess I can start learning and practicing the 'right' way over the next 21 days....give it a go.

In some ways I crave to go back on the program....the security, comfort and safety of it all....this being on my own is so hard and makes me feel fragile and vulnerable...its like I can't find the happy medium

Anyway...thats my thoughts at the moment. I need to devise some plan of attack thats balanced - I just find it is all or nothing at the moment and I need to find that common ground

[shell]

Hi Hexi,
Have you tried weighing up proteins to about the same amount as last day of re feed weights?

When I portioned up all my new chicken, lamb & beef I just added about 40-60g from my program weights, which worked out about right.
So what I get out of the freezer is roughly the same as last day of re feed.
Takes all the guess work out & also the temptation to add a "little" bit more.

It has taken a fair bit of stress (except for yesterday!) out of my day.
Hope that is helpful
Shell

[hexi2]

Thanks Shell

Its not really about the meat and meals - I can be stuffed full of food but want to binge on sweet things even though my tummy is full! Its sort of really hard to explain it - I am finding the evenings are the worst...

Anyway today I had a Cohens eating plan meal for the day to sort of gain back control....

When I went shopping today I did buy 3 serves of small chocolate (actually I had heaps more but decided to leave it near the check out) as I knew what the outcome would be. I find I am still buying the 'lower carb' chocolate but want to TRY all the ones I haven't had...like white chocolate, turkish delight and I keep fantisising about cheesecake for Christ sake...

What a war I am having with myself....

[shell]

Don't buy it & you can't eat it!!

I was making cakes & scones before & while I was on re feed, didn't bother me because I knew I couldn't eat them.
Now I am not so sure, so I haven't made anything & I am not a sweets eater either??
Weird huh!

Hang in there, you will work it out, as you said we WILL NOT go back to what we were before!
Shell