Katrin's REFEED diary

[Kohinoor]

Hi Katrin,

Some other GPs had put me on antihistamines saying I had asthma and was allergic to my cat. He did a simple test: Take me off the antihistamine, wait 2 weeks, do a breathing analysis, give me big bout of antihistamines, repeat breathing test, of no change, then not effective, hence no asthma. Also, skin test showed no allergy to cat. So off the expensive puffer I went! Simple, but efficient.

They are around then - GP's who have a healthy dose of common sense, and trouble-shooting skills. And your "simple but efficient" statement is SUCH an under-statement. This Doc of yours is GOLD !!! (A gem even ). Stick with him - he definitely sounds like he is worth his salt !!!

Good going !! And good luck with your Doc and the circadian rhythms,

Koh

[kagiesen]

58.1, hmmm, well not the direction I'm hoping for, but it's coming towards TOM as well as I usually have two days in a week where I put on kilos, and then next day they drop off, so not worried. Despite my promises to myself, I deviated again yesterday, and again I was fine until right up to dinner, where I still had my 2 fruit and 2 crackers left. Then I had one fruit after dinner, and then quite a few crackers above my allowance. Well, well, tomorrow's just another day.

The reason I'm still putting my weight up every day is that I want to show those coming closer to refeed that it can be painstakingly slow towards the end, and that I am just pushing through and am still very happy I didn't settle for the Cohens range. Just seeing how fragile this is, proves to me that I want to have been on the weight/in the body I am happy with for at least a week before I go on refeed. I've waited so long for this body, and I am not going to rush anything.

Have a great weekend, all of you!

Katrin

[kagiesen]

58.2, even more not the right direction. Not happy! Mind you, all my deviation fault.

I admire you guys for your non-deviation stamina. Again, today, I will try not to deviate.

With the NES and my eating rhythm sort of being 6 hours behind the sleeping rhythm, I wonder if I swop the meals around that would help. So under NES, people usually have only little breackfast. So maybe if I have meal 3, that would kick-start my body into the: hello, I'm awake mode. Then meal 2 as usual, and then sending the 'winding down' message for dinner, a light yogurt. Try to eat crackers and fruit before say 4. I guess if I do that today, I'll feel like starving, but maybe I should give it a trial of 3 days and see how I go.

OK, beef and veg, here I come for breakfast!

Oh, and no deviation, that's the challenge. So maybe I will not deviate during the day, and what happens at night, I can't guarantee? Hmmm.

I'll keep you informed, at the moment it really is a daily struggle and I can't wait for my herbal 5HGT to arrive to see if that curbs the evening/night eating! As shipped from US, takes a while!

Katrin

[Pudge]

It will take at least a week to 10 days to get. We shipped Asy some maple syrup we make and it took about that long to get to her.
It will depend on where in the states it comes from too.
Hope it works for you.
You said you have to be deviate free for 14 days before starting refeed why is that? Will it not work if you are not?
I am sure your gain is from TOM and will go after that is said and done.
pudge

[kagiesen]

Not sure about that deviation-free rule anymore. My consultant now knows that I deviated all the way through and still insists I start re-feed now, so can't be that important that rule. I guess a MAJOR blow out would not be good before re-feed.

Maple syrup, hmmm, I love the stuff. I can't believe anyone actually has maple flavored syrup, but that's what you get sometimes, what a sin! I always buy Canadian syrup, which is readily available here in the specialty sections, what is yours like?

They said it would take 18 to 21 days on USPS 1st class international mail. However, I've had stuffed shipped from the US (Carhartt work gear cos it's so cool (as in trendy) here and so expensive, too) and that took about 1 week, so I was really impressed by that (and their customer service). Where abouts are you, not that I know a lot of the US, but I've been to Boston and New Mexico (Albuquerque and Taos (well: Valdito, tiny little town) and skying in the Rocky Mountains).

Katrin

[kagiesen]

Still 58.2, at least didn't go further up. I am still refusing to change my ticker back, as I am convinced/hopeful that the weight will drop next week.

The eating reverse seemed to make things worse during the day, however, it was pretty good after dinner (yogurt with mango) I didn't seem to crave as much. However, I had a20 sec pang just after lunch where I had 2 crackers (so far so good), two pieces of chocolate and a nut slice. That had never happened before cos during the day I am usually fine (was before Cohens as well).

The last 10 days have been hard: Sitting at home all day marking exams, which was so annoying and boring and repetitive and argh! No excuse, just trying to figure out what was different the last 10 days (looking at my diary that's when I started being worse). Also, found out about the NES, and maybe giving myself an excuse? Don't think so, as eating during the night has become better. I'm finishing marking today, so things should be easier. I will continue doing the reverse meal order for some more days.

Like this, there is no way I'll start re-feed. I'm meeting my consultant today and will discuss with her.

Cheers

Katrin

[pandora]

Hi Katrin, great to hear your marking is almost done. Yr weight is fairly stable but as you say the odd extra nibble here and there. I have had a rethink (will post in my original diary) and maybe we can do refeed together in January. Lots of catching up for me to do as just got back from weekend away. Pandora

[Debs]

HI K


I did the body fat test....I have 36% body fat..... I remember just after I got married last year I joined curves gym and I had 44% body fat... so I'm impressed...

38.5 Kilograms of fat and 68.5 Kilograms of lean (muscle, bone, body water).

Hmmm.. I thought it would be much higher...

Very cool link K...

Thanks

Debs

[kagiesen]

I'm going on re-feed tomorrow!!!

My consultant has convinced me to do it, and not just persuaded, as my re-feed program is now getting a bit too old and it's crucial that it reflects the blood test I had on (god, I just checked, on 1 October). Man, am I glad that I didn't go on re-feed then. I was 64.8 that day, so I am now more than 6 kilos lighter, and those 6 kilos made all the difference for me!

My consultant also suggested that if I feel that after re-feed I still want to lose a few more kilos, to just go back on the program, if for less than 2 weeks, without re-feed, and if for more than 2 weeks, then with another re-feed. That's cool with me. I want to be completely done by 27 January 08, as I will be going to Canberra on a business trip where I don't want weigh things there, so must have gone through 14 days program plus 17 days (or to be safe: 20) re-feed. So if I start tomorrow, and maybe have a few slips so let's say it takes 19 days, that means I'll be done by 23, we celebrate Xmas on 24, so wold be nice if I reached maintenance by then, but if not, at least I'll be in my last days of re-feed. Then, if I am not happy, go back on the program for another 2 weeks from 25 to 6 January, then max 21 days re-feed (if necessary), and that means I finish just before I leave for Canberra.

I would not start re-feed if my consultant had not been so amazingly convincing and informed. She actually went through all the stuff (3 longish articles) on the Night Eating Syndrome and was very supportive and knowledgeable today. Very impressed! Worth her money in gold!

I will rename this thread then.

Hey, Pandora, so I won't be able to join you in January, or actually, I might, cos I might be on re-feed again

Cheers

Katrin

[kagiesen]

Well, day one of re-feed, starting weight 58.

Nothing to report so far as saving all my extra protein and veg for the evening meal as going out with friends. I will have Pollo ala Vela which is chicken breast marinated in vinegar wine with garlic, herbs and spices and served sizzling on a hot plate with a side of veg or salad. I will call them this arvo and make sure that they can weigh everything, and if that's too hard, I'll eye weight the chicken and take my own salad/veg. I will also save my fruit and cracker allowance for the night.

Last night was good: Went to bed at 1030, woke up once about 1am, had 2 crackers (from allowance), went back to sleep til 530, which is when I got up. Since taking the Valerian as a sleeping aid, my sleep has improved and with it the eating at night has become better. As I said before, the dangerous time is between 8pm and 3 am, once I'm over that, I'm fine. So my eating cycle is about 6 hours off the sleeping cycle at the moment, ie the body rhythm for eating is behind the body rhythm for sleeping, so when 'normal' people have that aligned, and hence stop being hungry around bed time and at night, my eating cycle is still in full blow, whilst in the morning, it doesn't start til about midday, and I have to force myself to have breakfast. All of that is getting better now, though!

The increase doesn't seem all that much, in particular as I would have done some of that during the program already when I deviated. I definitely have had days where I had about 30 gr more protein and 40 gr more veg. We'll see.

Katrin

[pandora]

Congratulations Katrin on starting refeed. I am keen to see how it all unfolds for you now! Enjoy, altho i know, day one is not much different from the regular program is it! More exciting additions in store on the days to come. Pandora

[kagiesen]

Day two if re-feed, weight 57.1 (down 900 grams, but that's due to TOM I reckon). Happy as Larry, though.

Had my first plum yesterday, and while nothing beats the mangoes at the moment, it was a nice change.

Saved all my extra food for dinner (out), where I had chicken (all parts except for skin) with herbs and a salad without dressing, which I both had to guesstimate as I was out (long planned, would not have started re-feed with a dinner out). I did not deviate at all, not even at night, although I had allowed myself 2 crackers, AND I forgot to lock the pantry! That felt great! I did think about the crackers when I went to the loo at about 2ish, but then realised I didn't feel like them and it would have been pure habit had I eaten them.

Having an extra piece of fruit is good cos then I can have the yogurt with mango and still have two left. Today I am allowed a slice of bread instead of 3 crackers (so still only 5 as before) but I might give that a miss today as I'm out all day and I don't like bread if it's not freshly toasted. Tomorrow I'll try that out.

Had lovely day with Debs yesterday, thanks Debs! The tandoori chicken she made (have you posted the recipe yet?) was to die for! Finally met her husband, and he's great fun, too. Impressed the son with my scooter, and scared off her little daughter who thought it was too noisy! Roar!

So feel really good!

Day 2 of re-feed, here I come.

BTW: Can I move this thread into the re-feed section, and if so, can anyone tell me how?

Cheers

Katrin

[Debs]

Wow Katrin

You are just streaking ahead

What's she's failing to mention to ya'll is that she ate the plum IN FRONT OF ME while mentioning something about rubbing it in *LOL*

hehehe.. We had a great time having you here... I was really disappointed that you had to go home....


Let me tell you ..... My house is the headquarters of the "Crazy German Woman Fanclub".... My kids love her.. My husband loves her...even our friend who was here loved her...even the darned cat....

*L*

Glad to see your refeed is smooth sailing at the moment

Debs

[pandora]

Hi Katrin

Now Debs is rubbing it in that she has you all to herself (with her lovely family!). As for your diary, you cld start a new one in the refeed section and copy and paste last 2 days entries over there and still keep this one too! I now have 2, greedy me, if it's not food i am having its muchos diary-os!

It does sound like you are having more fun now on refeed and less inclined for the night eating. I am with you about the bread being better toasted to purrrfection! Look forward to tomorrow's update! Pandora

[kagiesen]

57.5, weight is a fragile thing. Have had no BM in ages, so that might be the reason. I will go for a quick run after breakfast and hope that will take care of that.

Didn't have my slice of bread yesterday, but will have one today for morning tea with a new fruit. Don't really know if I'm looking forward to that, but want to expose my body to as much new stuff as possible. If I get bloated, back to crackers! Today my meat will be up 60, and veg 40, that's quite a bit! Can split that over two meals now, whilst before I had all extra in one meal, dinner. So far it's all old protein and veg, which is a bit boring. Am looking forward to being able to have the chicken (without skin, but all parts). Just typing this realised that on day 1 I actually had all parts also, and that was a deviation, as I will only be allowed all parts on day 15. I thought I could read, but obviously I can't! Well, didn't harm.

Eating my yogurt with mango at the moment, it's just amazing how filling that always is.

Got a work function tonight, with finger food and alcohol the main attraction. Don't care about the alcohol, and not really about the finger food, but unhealthy fatty food has the tendency to smell quite tempting when heated up, hence it's gonna be hard. Last time we actually had healthy-ish food at that function, but I will stay away from it totally and look forward to my nice beef fillet with veg at home later.

Two crackers in the middle of the night, not too bad. But had three too many over all that day.

Cheers

Katrin

[pandora]

Sounds like its all working well for you Katrin. I want to raise a potentially controversial issue regarding refeed to see what yr thoughts (and others) are.

On day 7, i am allowed to start "mixing proteins"! Hallelujah! I think it was Tuberose that said her consultant told her after she started mixing proteins, probably no longer a chance at weight loss????.

So my topic for discussion is, how come, for those who do try the slow and stead way to weight loss (other than Cohen plan) and succeed, i.e with WW, Suremslim, The DoAble Diet, Lite N' Easy, Jenny craig etc, anyone reaching goal - and many do go as low as Cohens low goal weight, they mix proteins the entire time, dont leave 5hrs etc, and STILL get there in the end! It could be half an english muffin for breakie, with pce low fat bacon, half an egg, and a low fat cheese slice! Man, thats bacon, egg and cheese! Lunch could be chefs salad with meat, egg, cheese, turkey etc.

Anyway, just wonder if you care to comment, anyone? My opinion is that as Debs and you Katrin call it, the Cohens Temporary Insanity can take over and people like me, for one, can get too obsessive about the rules and forget that the entire subject of weight loss acorss the board is not actually "rocket science". On ACA tonight, there is a young guy who went against all the "diets" and lost 40kg eating junk food! I know, i know, not healthy Jan, but, i will watch out of sheer curiosity! Pandora

[kagiesen]

Hi Pandora

I thought one reason was that if you mix proteins, the Human Growth Hormone does not get released as well as it would without mixing them and having the 5 hours apart. If that's true, the skin would not shrink as well as it does with Cohens, which is one of the great things (and nearly unique) about Cohens.

I think it also has to do with amino acids. I reckon this whole weight loss IS ACTUALLY SCIENTIFIC ROCKET SCIENCE and that's why it works much better than any other diet I have heard of. Also, that student of mine I met who lost 30 kilos in 3 months about 3 years ago has not put on any weight and he says he still sticks to the yogurt in the morning and the 5 hours apart, and normally doesn't mix proteins either and then he can eat within that frame nearly what he wants.

I'll try and find out more about it and let you know.

Katrin

[pandora]

Thank you. Lets face it, what i am really asking is probably

How can i make sure i never gain weight again? I.e. is it the 5 hrs, mix proteins etc? Any more input welcome! P

[Debs]

HI Katrin

Glad to hear it's all going well for you and that you're finding it all easy to manage

It's always nice to read in a friends diary about their bowel motions.... SO glad I checked.. My day is now complete


Pandora, I'm not sure what the difference is in answer to your question but it may have something to do also with being able to set a stable "Set point" in regards to your weight at the end....

So many of the other diets have no long term results... the weight goes back on...even something like weight watchers which supposedly promotes healthy eating....it still has a very high long term failure rate.. Another thought, though I'm aware that this may be a much broader answer to your question...
Despite a massive amount of experience with so many diets... Cohens has been the only one to allow me to deal with the underlying emotional issues contributing to my weight....my making food a non issue and then forcing me to look at the relationship I had developed with food....This may have some influence over whether we are able to keep it off at goal...

Don't forget both of you....Pan and Kat.....that you've made massive emotional leaps regarding food while you've been doing Cohens and this will be a factor in maintaining the new you..ALONG with food...

Hope that makes sense...

Debs

[kagiesen]

Originally Posted by pandora

Thank you. Lets face it, what i am really asking is probably

How can i make sure i never gain weight again? I.e. is it the 5 hrs, mix proteins etc? Any more input welcome! P

I reckon: weigh yourself EVERY DAY after you've finished Cohens. That way you can never go into denial. Any blow out one day, jump in the scales the next and FACE the consequences, and GO BACK to healthy eating. That's what I intend to do. Also, if I want to snack, I'll snack my own muffins or cakes or biscuits, not purchased ones with lots of preservatives and other stuff I don't know. Then: I'll try to stay away from chips (crisps) all together, not have crap chocolate, try to have chocolate within maintenance rules, ie within half hour of protein, just have yogurt and fruit for breakie, order entre serves if eating out, always skip the garlic bread (unless it's the one favorite I have here in Perth, all others don't meat up to that anyway and are not worth the sin), eat Cohens even with the weighing when at home, eat home made bread instead of purchased s**t, stuff like that.

I will mix proteins, but all together I will not exceed the amount that I can cope with on last day of re-feed more than a few times a week, if that.

And, as Debs said, deal with WHY you eat. And do the French Woman stuff. Try out those recipes. Once I'm off Cohens, I will do her Leek soup, for example. The baguette from today was already from her book, and my husband just loves it. Tastes good without anything, and I made sure I only had 30 gr, which is equivalent to the weight of a slice of bread as Cohens allows on refeed, ie 3 crackers.

So far I'm quite full today, had lovely beef fillets for lunch with rocket, spinach, onion and tomato salad and will have the same later for dinner after that function, with maybe veg and salad, as I can have 140 grams! Yeah!

K