Katrin's REFEED diary

[pandora]

Thanks Debs and Katrin for yr replies to my question. I think you are BOTH very wise.

Deb as you say, Cohen certainly does target our emotional issues more than any other as we cant just have a mini choc or wine etc as you can on other prog's. At the same time, i am also pretty sure the capacity for weight gain AFTER Cohen is potentially similar to OTHER programs, unless we deal with our "personal demons".

And i love yr reminder Katrin, to do lifestyle "the french women dont get fat" way! And keeping pretty much to last day of refeed for quantities, also sound advice. How was yr Thursday? Pandora

[Kannadew]

Katrin!!! I have been meaning to write this for DAYS!! SORRY!! you know ...LIFE!!!

CONGRATS ON STARTING REFEED! I am sooo glad that you started! I do think it was the best decision all round. How awesome will you feel when you are done!

Has your stuff arrived from the States yet? I look forward to hearing how that goes. It sure sounds like the valerian has helped too! It makes such a big difference when we can pinpoint the things that are causing our distress or problem, because then we can actually do something about them, otherwise we feel useless and guilty and stressed etc... (I know I do!)

good luck with the next few weeks!! I am sure it will go well! (and dont worry about those extra crackers... as you have said you have pretty much done that through your entire program and yet you still lost... you will get there in the end!!!)

Blessya
Kannadew

[kagiesen]

Thanks Kannadew!

The stuff from the US hasn't arrived just yet, I'll get some from a pharmacy here (more than double the price) today just cos I really want to start on it.

All the others: A gain over night of 800 gr, incl the 400 gr from the day before, and it's back to day 2 for me. Mind you, I know this was not caused by the re-feed, but I consumed over and above big time yesterday. All went well on the bread/cracker front, I had my 30 grams of baguette (baked myself) and 2 crackers, BUT then I deviated on my cheese muffins. So cheese plus oil plus carbs, NOT a good idea. My body would have forgiven me one, but not three. Mind you, smallish ones, but still.

I'm convinced this weight gain is not real weight but just glycogen in the muscles, BUT I will go back and do those 2 days properly. I can actually tell that the quantities are much better for me now even on only day 3 (if I was continuing to day 4, there would be another rise today), so it should really be possible not to deviate. Now this time I don't have the night thing for the last two days to explain the deviation.

I've been pretty good the last nights, in fact. Nothing last night (mind you, the muffins during the day more than made up for that), two crackers the night before (2 over allowance, but not too bad), don't thing anything the night before.

I am frustrated by the weight this morning but I know why it is like that. I am still unsure if I need to repeat the last two days, as I don't know if I've put on more than kilo. I started re-feed on 58, then dropped to 57.1, then up again to 58.3, so it's up more than a kilo in the last two days, but not from my starting weight, plus I don't think it's the extra protein/vegetable, but the deviation. I'm expecting a call from the clinic and breakfast is the same anyway so I'll just have that.

Katrin

[pandora]

Yes Katrin, see what yr clinic thinks but since you are already well below goal, and since you KNOW you deviated yesterday, you also KNOW that gain is just "fluid retention". Same as me, after my weekend my scales hit 53.2kg on Tues, alarm bells going off in my head and today i am back at 51.6kg so 1.6kg drop in 3 days of 100%.

Also, (again except yr yummy sounding cheese muffins!), sounds like adding extra food each day is working for you and helping with the night eating along with yr valerian. Trust yr body, IT knows what you want and will co-operate, i know that is what i am learning to do this week. Pandora

[kagiesen]

Just spoke to clinic. They said to repeat the last two days. Didn't tell them off course, that I know what the deviation was exactly, and the only person I woulnd have told is my consultant, who's unfortunately not in today. She knows all the details of my deviation history, so would be a more convincing source, whilst with the other consultants, I sometimes get the feeling that they just have these automated responses and don't think about things as much as my consultant does.

I'll send her an email, though, and see what she thinks.

Back to day 2 then!

Cheers

Katrin

[Pudge]

At least you know why you gained and have to go back to day 2. Or they say too. So good luck with that.

We live near Canada in the U.P. of Michigan. Asy can give you more detail on the syrup. Everyone we have given it too just loves it. We make it a little thicker than most commercial places just cause we like it that way. We only tap about 300 or so trees. Where the people who make it to sell tap in the thousands.
Do it mostly for the fun of it. Although gathering the sap is a big job. But gets you outdoors and it is warmer then even though there is snow on the ground.
pudge

[kagiesen]

Back to 58 after a repeat day 2, so day 3 today. A deviation in the night of some crackers to many, but that's nearly usual for me. I've got a kid's birthday party today (godchild turning 2) and have to stay clear of the cakes So I'll have lunch later so that I feel full before I go there, and then take my crackers and fruit as a treat there.

It's 60 grams more protein and 40 gr more veg today, that's quite substantial. If I stay away from the muffins this time I will be fine :-*.

I had thought I would get bloated or so as many others with the re-introduction of bread. Didn't. Might be cos I baked it myself, and when I compare the ingredients list of my baguette (flour, yeast, water, pinch of salt) with that on the supermarket bread (what are vegetable oil and vinegar doing in a bread?), maybe that's the reason.

Hey not so Pudge, you're nearly there, aren't you? You're doing fine. How much is your maple syrup if I was to order a bottle or three? I sounds great. Do you ever use it for baking, I don't mean on pancakes, just as the sweetener?

Katrin

[kagiesen]

Hey, Kannadew

whilst the stuff from the US hasn't arrived yet, I had ordered some of it to a local pharmacy. It costs about 5 times as much (actually: 50$ for 30 rather than 40$ incl postage for 120 is: hmmm: 1.60 per pill compared to 30 cents, that's 5.3 times as much (man, my estimate was good). Anyway, they gave me a call it had arrived, so I went and picked it up and took it last night. It sure made me sleepy. Some people say it takes a few weeks to feel the real effects. By then, my other stuff should be there. I ate an apricot at night, so that's not too bad.

I still have to figure out when to take it, though. It says 'on an empty stomach' which is difficult if you're having it before bed and it needs some time I guess to start working, so two hours after dinner, or maybe I'll take it 1 hour before dinner or sometime between lunch and dinner, cos the evening is the time I start getting this compulsion, so probably around 6 with dinner at 7 would be better. Had to babysit yesterday, so was afraid I'd fall asleep, which is why I took it later but will try to make it a regular 6 pm thing.

I only had 7 hours in bed (which is usually not enough as I get up about 5 times per night to eat/go to toilet, and then it takes a while to go back to sleep, so deduct about 2 hours every night just for not sleeping, but although I did get up to go to the toilet a few times, I am not tired at all and had not problems going right to sleep again after. So that's good!

Katrin

[Kannadew]

Hey Katrin! What a pain that it cost you so much... but like you said... at least you have been able to actually get started on taking it to see whether it will make a difference. Sounds like you did see some difference... but it sure will be good to see the changes after taking it for a week or so.

I reckon the hour before dinner idea sounds like a 'goer'....

I look forward to following your progress!!

Blessya
Kannadew

[Pudge]

Katrin
We don't sell it. We give it to our friends.
pm me your address and I'll send you a pint. I only put it up in pints and 1/2 pints.
I have used it when making sweet rye or wheat bread. Or if the reciepe of whatever called for corn syrup I have used it. It is wonderful over vanilla ice cream.
I have it on pancakes or waffles which of course is off limits at this time.
What we make a year varies. Cause it is so dependant on the weather. We need freezing nights but sunny 30-35 degree fays with sun and no wind for the sap to run good. this is pure maple syrup no additives. The sap comes out of the tree's we collect it and boil it down (boil the water out). It takes (normally) when the sugar content is higher at least 35-40 gallons of sap to make a gallon of syrup. We have soft maple tree's the hard maple's have a higher sugar content in the sap.
pudge

[kagiesen]

58.2 today (200 gr up), and I know exactly why. For some reason I find it harder not to deviate on re-feed, and yesterday at my friend's little girl's 2nd birthday party and the first thing I had was something that once Cohens is finished would not be a problem: mountain rye bread, salmon, bit of philadelphia, rolled up. Tiny piece, too. Then I went outside cos I didn't want to be in more temptation.

However, soon they all moved outside, and with them the plates. I had another little piece, and another, and so on. All of that would have been ok I reckon and not all that noticeable, but then I also had a piece of the birthday cake (and I didn't even like it that much, too much kiddy icing in blue and red (Thomas the Tank engine was the motto), and then I had a second piece and said to hubby how sick and stuffed I felt, and guess what? I had another piece! How sick is that?

Lesson learned: stay away from sweet sugary starchy ****. Stay away from anything that's not on the re-feed list for the time of re-feed. And will I be able to stick to this wise plan? I don't know. This season is difficult, and I am having troubles being 'good'. In a way, it's a good learning curve, as in real life it doesn't get any more difficult than Xmas time, so if I manage to get through this somehow, that will make me wiser.

I drank gallons of water, had a yogurt for dinner for the proteins, went for a quick run to get rid of the glycogen in my muscles, and so the weight gain was kept at bay for today, hopefully tomorrow, too.

I had a terrible night, could not sleep and felt like eating carbs, and loads of them. didn't do it, though. But I still feel kind of poisoned! Why do we do this? I really have to work more on the reasons behind it, as I am not intending to stay away from gatherings like that, and also don't want to feel I am holding back all the time. So at some stage I will have to learn to NOT EAT some crappy cake like that (I really prefer a nice self-made cake with thin base, no cream, hardly any sugar and loads of fruit, say plums, on top).

Maybe I have to develop the approach I used when I gave up smoking. The book by Alan Carr was tremendously helpful. However, he's got a book on eating as well, and unfortunately I don't like that one, as it ends with basically becoming a near vegan. I do like a lot of the vegetarian/vegan dishes, I don't think meat has to be in every meal, but I don't want to give it up totally either. So anyway, back to the smoking and eating sugar:

Sugar and bad fats make us addicted. That's why we are ok with say chips if we stay away totally, but start binging once we've had one. Same happened yesterday with the sugary cake. So if you rid your body of the stuff (like giving up smoking, just giving up sugar), eventually you will feel no craving for it at all. You learn it's bad for you, and you acknowledge it's an addiction, and then you stay away from it. When I had given up smoking, there were a few times in the first 3 years where I would have a cigarette or two, maybe twice a year. And in the time after that, for weeks I would be craving cigarettes again, thinking about them. Now I haven't had a cigarette in probably 2 years, and I don't think about them at all. After those phases where I was thinking about them again, I said to myself that the only way to stop that happening was to stay away all together. Alan Carr talks of the nicotine bug or something like that, inside you body, which is like the evil twin, telling you, come on, just one won't harm you, and I'll be quiet after that, and then when it gets what it wants and you give it, the next time it raises its little voice, it is much louder, and off course it continues to bug you until you give in again, and the cravings are born again.

Why am I writing all this? After all, it's a diary, and it helps me work through it. Like AAA: My name is Katrin, and I am a sugar addict. And it's not a physical addiction, it's 100% mental, like the fags, where I went through withdrawal for 3 days, and everything after that was in the head.

There was a couple at the birthday party (and nearly the only ones who haven't got a weight issue and I know they are really active runners etc), and they actually just shared ONE piece of the cake and I thought, whow, that's great. So you participate, but you also stay away from it. That will be me the next time, if at all, or even better: Maybe I can make sure next time I take my own little serve of Lindt chocolate, and when everyone else digs into the cake, I'll have two pieces of that.

Anyway, got a busy day, off now!

Have a great Sunday al of you, and thanks for reading this, if you have managed to go through this....

Day 4 of re-feed, second time around, as I have not gained too much weight to have to go back two days (yet)

Katrin

[pandora]

Hi Katrin

Sounds like you have had a similar experience to me. You started refeed last Tuesday and on the 5th day, you found yourself eating bread, cake etc not on the plan! Remember i was on day 5 of refeed, went away for a weekend and had a blow out on the Sunday (my day 7) so as you know, i felt my body is ready for refeed, but somehow my mind is playing tricks! So i went back to the weight loss plan as i too felt like a "sugar addict" i.e. give me a taste and i want more!

I do think you have the right idea by using your diary here to "vent" your feelings, talk it through etc and i do think that is one of the best things about having the forum! I know i have been contemplating restarting refeed on Thursday this week as that will be 6 wks since i picked up refeed.

Perhaps it is all a matter of carrying on through refeed, going back the days if you need to, watching yr weight daily and TRUSTING that it is all part of the process. I mean, unless we can allow small amounts of sugar back into our systems, we can never really partake of so called "normal" life again! How nice to be relaxed enough like yr runner friends to have the confidence and inner knowing that yes, you could share a slice of cake with hubby AND stop at that.

I also think we can get a bit complacent about the odd mouthful here and there when we are near, or at, or BELOW goal weight, the evil twin voice (yr term) says, go on, you are already thin enough, looking hot, one bite wont hurt! I think it is all a normal and natural part of the transition. If it was any other way, Dr Cohen would not have devised a weaning back into eating more and adding in sugar program. That is precisely why we weigh and record our weight EVERY day on refeed.

One last thing, if / when you continue to end of refeed, i am convinced that the very process itself will inevitably make any further wieght loss EASIER in January as the body now has a broader range of taste, chemical goings on, mixed proteins etc.

Look forward to hearing how Sun is for you! Pandora

[kagiesen]

58.5 kilos this morning. I seriously wish I had not started re-feed just yet. In the last week since last Monday, I put on 300 grams. That might not sound like a lot, but since I started Cohens, it’s the first week that I have not dropped some weight.

Yesterday, I deviated again. Not during the day, but in the middle of the night. I slept badly and that’s when I am the most vulnerable and perceptible to night eating. Didn’t have the worst, just a small chicken ball (left over from dinner but not within my allowance) and 2 apricots, also not from allowance.

I have the feeling that because I was not really ready for re-feed, I am not giving it the best shot, kind of sabotaging myself on it. I had wanted to start re-feed at 56, not 58, cos I never want to be anywhere close to 60 again. I want 58 to be the upper limit, and for the last few days I’ve been above that. Hence, I feel crap about myself, and hence I am developing a stuff it attitude. I now that’s bad, and I am trying to work through it. I kind of think: well, I’m not at the weight I wanted to be at, and hence, once I’ve finished re-feed, I’ll just go back on the program again, and hence it doesn’t matter at which weight I finish re-feed, of I have to go back anyway!

I am really annoyed at the fact that the clinic talked me into ordering re-feed when I had JUST reached the Cohens range. They convinced me that it would be soooo dangerous if I didn’t, s I would get these uncontrollable cravings/hunger pangs and then sabotage everything. Why couldn’t they have just told me: let us know when the hunger starts, then we’ll order re-feed asap? I mean, surely it must be possible to bear some hunger for a few days? That’s what they should teach us. Hunger is not a bad thing, and can be controlled. So I ordered re-feed cos they pushed me into it. Then, when I am still going, still not hungry, still losing weight, and still not entirely happy with my weight, they start sending me into panic mode again by now (for the first time) telling me that the re-feed program is only valid for 6 weeks. I mean, could they not have told be earlier? There is no way I would have caved in into ordering re-feed that early had I known that I would be forced to start it within 6 weeks (in my case 9 weeks have expired anyway).

I think there a re quite a few people who think they can and should be thinner than the Cohens target weight. We have such different frames, body styles and bone structure, surely a range based on only height, gender and size of feet can’t be more than a very rough estimate. I knew what I looked like the last time I was in the Cohens range, and I knew I was not happy with that weight back then.

I did send an email about this to my clinic, I didn’t just want to ***** here on the forum.

Anyway, I hope tomorrow I will be in a less feral mood.....

Pandora, you're right, I have been a bit complacent about the odd mouthful here and there

Katrin

[anniem]

Hi there

I know exactly how you are feeling i want to start refeed cause i am starting to pick at things but i am not quite happy where i am to start it. I guess we just have to be strict and try and not pcik at things. It is soo easy to do now.

Can you just go back on the programe now instead of finishing refeed and then do refeed when you are happy. I would think that you could. I had a bad week last week at picking and my weight stayed the same but i feel heavier this week so i am trying to make this week 100 percent. i think cause we have done so well and got down i think one little thing wont hurt but it does.

Oh it is very hard but we will get there. We just have to try stay on track i dont think apricots will do much damage it is better than having chocoate or pizza or something else.

Keep up the good work and maybe you dont need to listen to the consultant (sorry) but you should do what you think is best and maybe that means going back on the program for now and doing refeed when you feel like you should.

Have a nice day and dont worry too much

Annie

[kagiesen]

Hi all, and Annie and Pandora

I was 57.7 this morning, after day 5 of re-feed (repeated days 3 and 4). And deviated, too, with: one small cheese muffin, one tiny piece of dark chocolate, and about 5 to 7 crackers too many

Had no bread, maybe that's what caused the weight gain before? It's not worth it, anyway, unless I have the freshly baked baguette (which Debs told me I was not allowed to mention in my diary, ). So I'll stay off it today. What does day 6 bring? No difference to day 5, but it's quite a bit of food, so much I can't add it all to just one meal, as I did in the beginning, but have to split it over meal 2 and 3. Meal 1 is yogurt and new good fruit, blackberries, yumm! I do eat them frozen, well, no, I don't I thaw them, obviously, but the fresh ones are just to expensive!

Annie, I think you're right, I sometimes think, what the hell, I am so under the range, a few deviations won't hurt me. Not a good thing, I am still not endorsing deviations, but on the other side, I am very pleased that my body can cope with most of them. You know, I started picking at things quite early. I was not hungry hungry, just peckish. But I still lost weight, cos it was never a lot, and I reckon my body just got used to the deviations. I would have lost MUCH faster WITHOUT the deviations, but I might not have made it to 57. Ever.

I think I have to go through the whole re-feed now and finish it off properly, as the reason I went on it was that it was 9 weeks old, and I thought: I'll just do it, and anything I am not happy with at the end of it, I'll lose with another week or two on the original program. If that's what it takes to drop to 56, so be it. And that's the weight I want to be so that I have 2 kilos buffer to 58, and so that I never, even after a day of deviation, even if I put on 1.5 kilos over night cos of a bit of a pig out on one day, go above 58, or actually reach 58 again. I want to maintain between 56.0 and 57.0. Maybe I'll put on some muscle weight later, but I don't think so, cos I'm quite muscley already thanks to having kept up a bit of exercise and doing Pilates and some push-ups etc. Not much, just to not lose muscle mass.

So, today I'm all enthusiastic, and that, as always, changes, but I've gotten used to that, so a weight gain, whilst making me angry, does not upset me al that much!

Have a great day, all of you who read my diary!

Katrin

[HAILS_WANTS_2_B_THIN]

Hi there

I always find your diary so intersting as you are similar to me in that i began to deviate when i got to a comfortable 73kg last time on cohens. I wonder if i had of had this forum if i would have let my situation get as bad as it did . I think i might have been able to catch my problems and refocus.

I love how honest you are about your deviations and how you have managed though it. How long have you been on cohens now? i plan like you to go well under my weight range and maintain between 62-64kg and my weight range is currently 68-71kg. I am more prepared after reading your story as i know how tough and long it is going to be. But i think it will be worth it as i have never really loved my body and i am young and deserve to look good.

Anyway just though i would let you know that although you are not a conventional role model your honestly is helping others achieve there goal.

[kagiesen]

Hi Hails

I'm glad I'm an inspiration to some! You're right, not the conventional type!

I started on the program on 3 September 07. So that's more than 3 months now. I got to the Cohens upper range (65) on 28 September, the lower range (62) on 15 October, under 60 on 13 November, and my lowest ever (57.1) on 5 December. Started re-feed at 58.0 on 4 December. As you know, I'm on 57.7 right now, after weight went up on re-feed (not due to re-feed, I reckon, but the deviations).

And you're right, go for gold. You do deserve to look good, in fact: superb, and that's no matter what age. I am nearly 40 now, and haven't looked as thin and muscley and fit since being a teenager! So nothing's impossible. Luckily I've always been sporty, which helps! The best test for you is naked in front of a mirror. Like you, I have never loved my body before, and that's the reason I want to be the best I can, not just ok (62 to 65 was seriously still flabby and too much fat, not just lose skin).

Despite the deviations, I still think Cohens is just the BEST. I might nit have been able to stick to everything on it, but I have surely learned a lot, and the weight loss has been astonishingly quick compared to anything I've done before, despite it feeling slow towards the end. It's still quicker than anything else!

Go the extra mile, Hails, it's worth it!

Katrin

[Debs]

If I may add in my 2 cents...

I think that Cohens is an individualised programme anyway..It makes sense to be tailoring it to your own needs when you get to when you are Katrin..

And you ARE an inspiration K.....



Debs

[hexi2]

Well said Hails Yep Katrin you are a and an at the same time - you are an inspiration to alot of people around here! Can't wait til you get to where YOU want to be...hey are we going to see some before and after shots soon?

[pandora]

Oh yes, i am part of the Katrin cheer squad too! If it wasnt for you and yr journey and honesty, i doubt if i wld be sitting at 51.5kg today and aiming for 49-50kg before refeed. The "old" me prior to being KATRINISED , wld have been blissfully happy at top end of my range at 55kg and i wld nrever have known how good it feels to be size 6 - 8! I am also delighted to see you are inspiring Hayley who also wants to be slim as for the first time ever! Nothing to beat it!

Had coffee earlier with my friend who started Cohens last Friday, she has lost 3kg already and excited about her goal range of 49-52kg. She is short at 155cm and cant imagine being 49kg but is willing to dream the dream and then live it, she is 40 in January! Best birthday pressie ever for both her and her adoring hubby and 3 kids under 12! She has 20kg to lose all up but most if not all will be gone by her 40th at end of January, she is a 100% girl all the way so 7 wks might just do it! I love how this stuff changes lives! Have a great day, you totally inspirational legend you! Ever thankful to have you on this forum, Pandora