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Old 22-04-2020, 09:35
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Kohinoor Male Kohinoor is offline
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Default COVID19 thoughts

Hi all,
We've all done pretty well here in Australia and NZ - I do think we both have a major advantage being island nations, making it easier to close our borders.

I'm a bit mixed about this whole "isolation" thing. I see some benefits as we all slow down and think more of "family things" and even re-learn how to live together. I also think the keeping our distance (just 1.5 metres) is not a bad thing either - especially while we learn more about this virus and a possible vaccine. But just how far should we go with the "shutting down of things - beaches, non-essential businesses, gatherings of groups larger than two, don't sit on park benches (even with no-one else around???), etc.

This whole issue around shutting down our economies is worth a second look. I heard this morning that, if we measure "deaths vs economical damage" the figure looks like this:-

For every death, we have 10,000 people out of work. ( x 1000)

If our leaders knew that would be how things would work out, would they have chosen to shut down the whole joint in the first place? And, now that they do know, does it make sense to continue to isolate everyone and risk even further economic damage? Hmmmm.....


Further to that, it seems many die WITH Covid, but do all of these die OF Covid? Are these all counted as Covid deaths anyway? Like, was it Covid that brought on their deaths, or were they about to die anyway? The largest percentage of deaths ARE in the over 70's age group.


Should we be following the Sweden model instead - keep your distance (1.5m) but business pretty much as usual. They have some milder restrictions, but aren't shutting down the whole joint as we are. And their death rate is not much more than our own. Edited later - I was quite wrong about that last comment - the graph I had looked at was a Logarhythmic scale that shows 10,000 as just double the height of 1000 - and 100,000 is just triple the height of 1000 - as such, a country higher up the scale is really WAY higher than it first seems when using this scale. And with further knowledge (using deaths per million people of population) it shows Sweden has one of the highest scores of all. Still, they took the path of keeping their economy alive but this has been at a high cost in deaths within the community. So, let me backtrack - let's not go Sweden's way.

One thing that is galling me is where businesses take their own advice, ignoring recommendations from the Govts - one case in particular is that of "Rest homes" where we have old friends who are almost imprisoned by their care providers. i.e. The management allow NO visitors, not even family. The Govt (Australia) say "Allow 2 visits per day, with no more than 2 visitors at one time".

My thoughts are - older folk need daily interaction so they don't feel forgotten. And via phone calls we learn from one friend that "even the staff don't stay long - just in and out again". So our old friends feel quite isolated. Even phone calls are a poor substitute for "sitting face-to-face". And not just older folk anyway - we are all gregarious !!

With our Covid figures looking pretty good (i.e. we HAVE flattened the curve) isn't it high time we RELAXED our guard somewhat and allowed more latitude? Let's have BBQ's again with a few friends. Even risk allowing most/all businesses to re-open? Maybe remain with closed borders until we have better/faster screening of incoming visitors - but do look to opening them up too, in the not-too-distant future.

What do YOU think? Isn't it time to get back to more normal living?

Koh
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Last edited by Kohinoor; 09-05-2020 at 10:53.
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Old 09-05-2020, 11:02
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Default Re: COVID19 thoughts

Hi again,
Here we are a couple of weeks on, and there are signs (in Qld at least) of more normal activities coming up. I look forward to more of these.

Last weekend we were allowed to "travel up to 50Km to have a picnic or a day at the beach" as well as some relaxing of family meetings. Another week from now, and the plan is to allow smaller restaurants to open, along with coffee bars, etc. but with limited numbers per establishment and/or family groups (up to 10 people now, instead of 2). We're still to hear final details, but there is hope of a "more normal life" sputtering back into being !

Apparently each step is in the control of individual State Govts - Fed Govt recommendations are nothing more than encouragement and are often ignored. I guess it is a tough gig to allow a bit of relaxation of these strict measures, only to find Covid cases screaming up again, then perhaps having to "go back a step". So their reticence is understandable. I hope that this all doesn't become a "race between states to be back to normal the quickest" by taking more risks than we should !! Softly, softly methinks.

Time will tell. Stay safe all,
Koh
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Just a big happy hushpuppy
I haven't "done" Cohens - Asy knows me from way back - she invited me to "take a look" here - I did, loved it, and stayed...
And me? I'm a tall skinny bloke (BMI ~23) and have been this way forever, so I haven't faced (weight-wise) what you all have !!

Last edited by Kohinoor; 09-05-2020 at 11:04.
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Old 12-08-2020, 20:27
Winterboots Female Winterboots is offline
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Default Re: COVID19 thoughts

Hi Kohinoor,
Long time since I visited and posted but I hear what you are saying!!

Nz has done well but we are now locking down the country for 4 people - would it not be economically better to pay for those vulable people to stay at home as well as get the elderly protected but let everyone else weather the storm - the likely hood of dying is very small.

I really hate the way we are being brain washed about this so call deadly disease (death rate is quite low compared to other virus's) - the conspiracy part of me sees this as the government trying to control us.

Do you still have your holiday home in Springbrook - it has such special happy memories for our family and we often talk about the happy time we spent there.

Take care
Winterboots
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Old 14-08-2020, 12:53
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Kohinoor Male Kohinoor is offline
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Default Re: COVID19 thoughts

Hi Winterboots,
Good to hear from you. Yes, I agree that some decisions being made could perhaps be reconsidered. One early statistic I heard indicated that Australia had 10,000 out of work for each death we suffered. Knowing that, is keeping things locked down the best way to go?

Considering too that many folks are in a bad way BECAUSE of the isolation. A combination of businesses failing, or folks just not being allowed to go to work, some suffering depression because of the bleak outlike, suicides becoming more rampant, domestic violence on the increase (with families often locked in with an abuser), etc. There are so many things more than just "Covid cases" that could do with airing.

I heard State Govts seeming to listen only to health advisers, with little thought given to "the other dramas going on". Our own state (Qld) seems almost hellbent on having NO Covid cases - but killing the tourism industry while they lock down. Is it the right way to go? For sure, we have kept generally free of Covid - but is that enough? Don't other affected individuals need a hearing?


Unfortunately we had to sell our Springbrook place. Cyclone Betty started it in 2017 - she closed the only two roads up the mountain - and the most optimal road then remained closed for a further 18 months. We lost several bookings over that and found we needed to sell. Fortunately someone who lived there was wanting a nice home and we got a good price for it. We consider ourselves blessed as Springbrook was badly "hit" for the 18 months of road closure.

Families on the mountain had to drop their high-school kids down to Mudgeeraba the LONG way then drive back to open their business, and repeat after school closed - adding 2 hours extra travel per day for those 18 months. Awful - hopefully their businesses are coming back again now with the road all fixed again.

Stay safe WB,
Hugs,
Koh
__________________
Just a big happy hushpuppy
I haven't "done" Cohens - Asy knows me from way back - she invited me to "take a look" here - I did, loved it, and stayed...
And me? I'm a tall skinny bloke (BMI ~23) and have been this way forever, so I haven't faced (weight-wise) what you all have !!

Last edited by Kohinoor; 23-08-2020 at 16:43.
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