A question...

[New me]

Forgive me if this has been addressed elsewhere.

I love Cohen's - it's the only weight loss that has truly worked for me and I'm thrilled with my results (20kg in 11.5 weeks at 47 yo - pretty impressed with myself!). I am a total convert.

However.... my best friend is a dietitician and she supports what I hear in the media all the time (Dr John Tickell is getting heaps of coverage about it now in particular), that a diet based on minimal meat, wholegrains, legumes etc is the key to long term health.

I know that the food we are eating now is a temporary deal, and that we will gradually be able to have what most of us would consider a more 'normal' diet. But I can clearly see based on my own results that, for me, carbs seem to be a big no no.

My question is, when we are on maintenance will we be able to base our eating around a more vegetable and grain approach, OR as I suspect, will we be protein devotees for ever in order to stay slim?

I know there is tofu (hmmm?) and that everthing in moderation is the best rule of thumb. I also know that the damage done by being obese probably outweights (!) the benefits of grains/legumes.

Just wondering what the experts here would say.

Thanks for any contributions!

[shell]

Hi New me,

My diet now is pretty much still all Cohen's foods plus I have carrot as an extra veg (don't like any of the others!) lamb, pork, ham, heaps of egg whites, tasty & cheddar cheese.

I try to still stick to as preservative free as possible as well.

I also have a "cheat" meal roughly once a week or a bit longer, and that is usually chops!
Tried some other "crap" I used to like (not as nice as once imagined ) & would much rather eat something better and enjoy it.

Probably 98% of the time I don't include carbs at all other than crackers, now I have just started having wraps, Burgen bread or low carb wraps once a week when I do my bigger workout- helps with muscle growth.

I dont miss them at all, but the main thing is by staying off them I feel a lot healthier!.. this coming from some one who pre Cohen's would be eating probably 70-80% of my diet carbs!

Not everyone is the same, and some people are more sensitive to carbs than others, you will work out what works for you when you hit maintenance.

Shell

[Annabelle Joy]

New me, I agree with shell. Like you, I've discovered that carbs are not really good for me. I think that a lot of the newer research into obesity and healthy eating supports the style of eating we are now doing -- plenty of protein, plenty of vegetables, not a lot of carbs. Try searching the Internet and I think you should find a lot of support for this type of diet.

AJ

[New me]

Your new shot looks gorgeous! Thanks for your thoughts, I will do some searching out, but I'm still indoctrinated into thinking grains = healthy bowel, meat = not. I need to get to the bottom of this!

[Kristine..]

Hi New Me

Spinach = healthy bowel

Believe me, once you get into the swing of this, your bowel will be very healthy, indeed, as will the rest of you

The bowel relies on water and roughage. Attracting water to the contents of the bowel is important, and processed wheat products really don't do that, it is cellulose eg bran or seeds or other substances which we actually don't 'digest' which creates the roughage.

Many commercial roughage products are made from husks of cereal, no real nutritional content at all

Or even foods such as corn (cob corn, not corn meal) - but corn is almost straight carbohydrate so not good for everyday eating

But try spinach. High in iron and other vitamins and minerals, baby spinach raw or wilted, sliver beet or the Logan Farm spinach is so easy to use. Although I love a crisp Iceberg lettuce, I don't have lettuce much on the program as I would rather have as much value from the food as I can.

Pop-Eye was right! Spinach can move mountains .... if you know what I mean!

Cheers
Kristine

[Annabelle Joy]

New me, there's plenty of fibre in vegetables and fruit. Once on maintenance you can have some grains if they agree with you. I think that what's important is sticking with low GI foods in maintenance. I'm impressed with Dr Cohen's 'only eat what you can catch or grow' philosophy for maintenance.

You might like to look at the CSIRO diet and the South Beach diet. Both are fairly low carb, high protein, but still include some grains. I'm not suggesting that you change from Cohen's, but I think that their philosophies are similar to Dr Cohen's for long term maintenance. For the relatively short time you will be on the Cohen diet I very much doubt that you will do your body any long term damage (my doctor and several other forum member's doctors are recommending Cohen's for weight loss), and, as you have discovered, you will do it a great deal of good.

AJ

[New me]

Hi Kristine, I am already a convert of the humble spinach - most days I have spinach and rocket mix as my salad lunch. Although.... it sure aint moving moutains for me on Cohens! I'm really surprised you don't have the lettuce. I find having lettuce and spinach mix takes longer to eat and I can get a really big bowl full, compared to a pathetic little bit of veg. I usually add a tiny bit of tomato and perhaps cucumber, but predominantly it's the greens I'm having at lunch. And you're right, lots of the 'fibre' stuff is rubbish, but pre Cohens our family eats really good grainy bread, wholemeal pasta and wholemeal rice (part of the reason I'm in this predicament of course!). Interesting about the water in the bowel bit too. Great to hear from you.

Hi AJ, I have the CSIRO book but hadn't thought about it in a while (understandably!) and yes, it is high on protein, low on fibre. But I do remember at the time that's what made it so contraversial with people like Rosemary Stanton, John Tickell etc. I guess I'm a bit concerned about just having too much meat really but I can eat heaps of vegetarian stuff so that will probably be how I'll go. Yep I know I can do it, but just checking.

[Annabelle Joy]

New me, it always seemed to me that primitive people would eat a mainly vegetarian diet. Seemed a lot easier to find an edible plant than get close enough to an animal to kill it. However, I discovered when visiting Kakadu that my perception was not correct. We heard one of the rangers talking about the food that the aborigines ate in the past. We were told that in fact their diet was mainly meat and fish, not so much vegetable matter. There were plenty of animals, many were easy to catch, they provided a lot more food than picking off small berries one at a time, or digging up yams with a pointed stick (very hard work apparently). So, it seems to me that the human body is actually quite well adapted to fairly high protein diets, and it's only been since humans started farming that they have had eaten more grains. Having grown up on a farm at a time before diet was a major industry, even in the first half of last century farming folk had high protein diets with a lot of fresh vegetables, just like Cohen food.

AJ

[louise41]

New Me, there are always plenty of critics of many of the diets. I have had Dr Tickles diet book and it is a nice heathy diet with lots of natural foods which is great and that is good if you can keep in your normal weight range. If, like me you are one of those people who are very sensitive to carbs and put on weight easily when you eat them, this may be better. One thing that they do all agree on is that thinner peolple live longer and overweight people a shorter time. They may argue over carbs but I bet none of them would argue with the fact that being in your healthy weight range is much better than being overweight. I guess the reason many of us are trying this program as many of the others have not been successful or have not lasted. This works for me, I know Im healthier when Im thinner. I look better, I feel better , my cholesterol and BP are good. Judge for yourself

[Kristine..]

Originally Posted by New me

I find having lettuce and spinach mix takes longer to eat and I can get a really big bowl full, compared to a pathetic little bit of veg.

Hi NM

I am not concerned about volume, so although I may put a bit of lettuce in with, say a tuna salad I am more concerned about balancing what I eat

When I took a packed lunch, I wanted the package to be as small as possible, and always chose the denser vegetables anyway. I wanted to eat something of everything (if I could) across the 21 meals of the week. The people who I know who have not maintained weight after finishing the program have generally been those who ate the least variety during the program.

Obviously, this is a sweeping generalisation, but in 'real life' we eat a variety of food, so I try and think of what I 'fancy' and go for that, rather than just because it will take a while to eat. A slice or two of zucchini may not sound important, but I am convinced that we must keep our food options open, then refeed and real life are not such a shock to the system.

One thing I didn't do in 2006 was use the spray cooking oil. I mainly used a non-stick frypan. I now use the wok all the time (did I mention that No# 2 Son had the plumber fit the gas hob while we were away - the hob which has sat under the family room table since 2002 when I bought it for Mike's Christmas present? The hob has a wok burner which is just great!)

But I digress:

Regularity is one of those 'old wives' tales'. What is regular to one person is going to be a wild fantasy to another. On Cohen's, we are changing how we eat, not just what we eat. If we used to be a 'twice a day' person we may now be a 'twice a week' person but that is understandable considering the amount of food we are eating.

A couple of tips (apart from Logan Farm spinach):

Drink two full glasses of warm water first thing in the morning, straight down the hatch!

Try a slice of unpeeled kiwi fruit (scoop out the rest to eat, just have a little of the furry skin)

Wash but don't peel any vegetables or fruits

Change around what you eat and when you eat it. Stone fruits are coming into season - poach a nectarine or apricot for a bit of regularity!!

Each person reacts differently to each food. I'll bet if you had a whole serving of Logan Farm spinach for your veg allowance with one meal you would be with Pop-Eye!

It's an interesting topic and an important one. I looked up bowel cancer rates in India - extremely low - the spices are natural anti-oxidants which also assist bowels to remain healthy

Don't worry about multi-grain bread, a vindaloo curry will be much more effective and a lot more fun!!

Cheers
Kristine

[new_ruby]

my goodness Kristine - you have so much information to share.
I am loving following you around this forum, and digesting everything you have to say...!
cheers,
Ruby

[louise41]

I agree, I just went and had a glass of hot water- if for no other reason than to add variety to my water

[shell]

Hi Kristine,
I have found that by not regularly eating whole grain carbs, I can't get enough fibre in my diet with all the fruit and veg I eat.
I did some reasearch on the net and found a healthy option, I now take Flaxseed oil capsules to make up for it.
Shell

[lucylou]

Kristine

I'm with you on the spinach, I've been recommending it all the way through my Cohens journey. I was scared of being constipated before I started on the diet but I haven't suffered from it at all and I swear by lots of spinach and silverbeet.

x

LL

[New me]

Hi Kristine, AJ, Shell, Louise and Lucylou,
You've been busy while I've been away! Thanks for all your posts and I'm feeling pretty comfortable with the whole thing now (was before anyway, just wondering).

Absolutely agree - how healthy can being nearly 40kg overweight be??? I am definitely better getting to slim and staying there.
Apart from anything else, the yo yo weight loss, weight gain that has been my life for the last 15 years is destructive in every sense.

Really interesting about the flaxseed tablets Shell - I'm going looking for them. Yes, ancient peoples have thrived on meat-based diets (just ask Sam Neil and the meat industry advertising advisors!), but modern scientific research informs the optimum contemporary diet which makes us taller (well, some of us!), stronger, healthier and live longer than our native forebears. Still going with the slim and balanced approach - and you have all just reinforced my commitment to it. Cohens = healthy, just a different balance than most of us are used to.

So Kristine the Logan Farm spinach is frozen isn't it? Are we allowed it? If so, I'm having steak and spinach for dinner tonight! I suppose you thaw then weigh? I work full time, have husband overseas at the moment, two teenage kids (one in middle of VCE exams as I write) - anything quick, convenient and easy for me is a GOOD thing (hence the salad staple at lunch - has to be quick to pre-prepare and healthy).

Loving all your input!

[Kristine..]

Hi Newme

Yes, the Logan Farm is frozen. There is a box packet which is one block of spinach, and a box packet and/or plastic bag which is cubes of spinach.

I have just put the packet in the fridge on a plate and used what I needed by forking the spinach out to be weighed, but it really has less than a week's fridge life once thawed

The cubes weigh differently when frozen than when thawed. I put the packet in the fridge etc and the cubes weighed about 25 gms each, but I recall they weighed slightly more if frozed.

As we don't want to be eating ice it is best to thaw before weighing. I find my cold oven the best place to thaw - just plate whatever and put in the oven. The plate is away from flies and the food thaws slowly. Thawing in the fridge takes overnight so if I know what I want to eat it is just as easy to plate something and oven it rather than be standing there defrosting in the microwave when that just complicates meal preparation.

I enjoyed a chicken saag for dinner last night. Very yummy indeed and the mayonaise really livens it up. The Logan Farm is also good if you are baking cheese & spinach. Obviously, it's not salad quality bit it's all good nonetheless!

Enjoy!

And don't forget to READ YOUR PROGRAM regarding your allowed oils

One (optional) capsule daily of either

Evening Primrose Oil, or
Omega 3 (fish) Oil, or
Flaxseed Oil

Whichever works best for you. Good for skin, hair, eyes and MBM!

Cheers
Kristine

[New me]

You are a full bottle of info. Yes aware of the oil stuff - I want to give the flaxseed a shot so will give the primrose a miss.
Good advice on the spinach too - thawing in the fridge as I write - we'll see what effect!!!