Refeed advice - high or low cohen's weight?

[NewLou!]

Hi guys!!
I have been on Cohen's since late june. I have two small children (2 & 1 yrs) and run my own business from home so I don't get much time on the forum but love to use it to learn and be inspired by you amazing people out there!! I truely feel so grateful to so many of you because without even knowing you have helped me so many times I felt I needed encouragement.
I am very close to my cohens 58-61kg. I'm currently 62.3. I know my scales weigh a bit high ( I know this from the countless other programmes I have unsuccessfully done; ie weight watchers etc. Also on my old scales (which weigh about 1kg lighter than my true weight) I am 59.5kg). I have been using the higher weight as I wanted to have a buffer. (I am doing my programme via post so I don't use the clinics scales but I've read on the forum that at the end you should really listen to your body anyway. I have been advised by the clinic I can start anytime now).
I am getting more and more hungry each day. By the afternoon nothing seems to satisfy. Sometimes I'm sure the pantry is whispering in my ear "open me open me". I am waking at ridiculous times like 5am and wanting to have my breakfast ASAP. I am so exhausted by the afternoon and very very grumpy!! I have my refeed programme so I can start anytime. I'd love to last one more week at least before I start my refeed.
From what I have been reading on the forum people have been more successful starting at the lower end of their cohen's range.

• Has there been a chart been completed of what people's weight was when they started refeed (ie high or low cohen's weight range) and how successfully they have been able to maintain?
• Did they lose more weight doing refeed if they started higher; and less if they started the lower range ?

Thanks heaps guys I have been trying to research on the forum but due to my time restraints aren't finding the info I'm really after.
lou

[Kohinoor]

Hi NewLou,

Well done for being where you are (ready for )

Has there been a chart been completed of what people's weight was when they started refeed (ie high or low cohen's weight range) and how successfully they have been able to maintain?

Not that I can recall.....

Did they lose more weight doing refeed if they started higher; and less if they started the lower range ?

In my recollection, things vary so much, it's hard to "get a handle" on things. I suspect though (having read quite a few) that refeed will "settle you in to where you need to be". e.g. If you've gone too low, it'll tend to have you gain (maybe THIS is why, after you gain a Kg TWICE, your refeed is deemed to be finished). Conversely, if you haven't gone low enough, you'll lose more.

BTW, grumpiness seems to be a common sign of "the need to refeed" (but ONLY when you are near goal, and it's consistent). Others are backache, and hunger !! You've got two out of three.

With the blessing of your consultants, I'd say it's probably "Time!" (Of course, check my sig - as I'm not talking from personal experience).

The last thing you'd want is to get so "crazy hungry" that you deviate - then need to wait ANOTHER 10 days before starting...

Good luck with the decision,

Koh

[Annabelle Joy]

Lou, it seems to me you are ready for refeed. Your Cohen's range is just a likely range for someone of your height. Going too low can make maintenance more difficult, as your body really needs more food and keeps trying to add it back on. To keep at a weight that's too low you have to keep starving it a bit. Have a look at Maya's recent post here http://newyouforum.com/forum/showpos...5&postcount=26.

I don't like disagreeing with Koh, who's gathered a lot of wisdom from reading our diaries. However, my consultant said to me when I was about to restart refeed that if I was starting to early I would put on weight in the first few days as the extra food before I got to my optimum weight would cause weight to go back on. I started above the top of my range and am now sure that, if not at the right point it was actually too low for me. Listen to your body rather than looking at numbers that may not be right for you.

AJ

[shell]

Hi Lou,
Sounds like your body is telling you it is ready, you will know when to start re feed- just trust yourself and your body to make that decision.
As Koh said, don't keep going if you think you might deviate.

Congratulations and keep us updated on how you are going.
Good luck.
Shell

[NewLou!]

Thanks heaps for your replies koh, AJ, and Shell. It was great advice and given me plenty of food for thought!!!
I've decided I'm definitely not going more than a week longer on my programme before I start refeed. I will take day by day. I'm going to plan out exactly each refeed day now so if I find I have to start I'm prepared.
Thanks again guys!!
....By the way ....it might be interesting to do a chart that does compare peoples refeed commencement weight (hi or low cohen weight) what they lost/gained on refeed and if they have kept their maintenance weight within cohens specs. (It's just that a lot of what I have read on the forum does say to go lower and now that I have read Maya's recent entry I can see that going too low can be detrimental. It's good to have rounded results that show that you have to do what is right for you and that dr cohen prescribes a weight range for a reason.) How would you go about doing this sought of comparison?
Thanks!
lou

[Kristine..]

Hi Lou

I started refeed at the top of the Ideal Weight range but I wasn't hungry at all, and I was influenced by my clinic closing and them having (considerately) ordered the refeed before they did.

So the program was sitting there, I didn't make the decision to organise it, and it kept whispering to me - I felt pressured by the folder being in the drawer to move on to that stage of the program!

Most people lose a bit more weight during refeed, but refeed restocks our bodies with glycogen, and again, most people swing back to the weight they started refeed on.

OK, so it's just a number on a dial, but for me the end weight left me between clothing sizes - too tight in one size, too loose in another. If I had been at the lower end of the weight range I would have fitted the smaller size very comfortably.

Be that as it may, I maintained that weight - 60 kilos - without any effort at all until the wheels fell off in other areas of my life, and the stress of that certainly contributed to the very slow but steady weight gain over the next six months or so.

This time, I am going to wait refeed until I actually feel hungry.

You are hungry now. The hunger is meant to be the body indicating that it has no more fat to supplement the daily energy needs. Yes, you may be able to string it out for a few more days or a week or so but to what point? If you have already been hungry for a week, is there any real point in making yourself upset now when the rest of your time on the program has been a pleasure?

Listen to your body. If it is now ready to move on, then throw the hawser rope and allow yourself to sail away. Moving on from the program is scary - it means we are going to be leaving this crutch which has been with us for weeks or months, and going to have to learn to walk by ourselves again. But we can do it. We have chosen this program because it does set us free. Freedom is scary, but we have 'done the time' and more importantly, gone through 'rehab' and now we are reformed prisoners, model citizens, ready to leave the safety of our obesity, of our program, and face life head on.

Planning and anticipating the refeed meals is a good idea. It is a bit complicated but all part of the challenge, and critical to the success of the program.

Congratulations on having come this far, I'll bet you're pleased with yourself and you will do the refeed successfully, too.

Best wishes
Kristine

[NewLou!]

thanks kristine for your wise advice. I am taking it all on board and I am organising my refeed menu plan so I am set to go!
Thanks heaps!
lou

[new_ruby]

Hi NewLou,
All the best advice is available here!
So, for what it's worth, I'll share some of my recent experiences and tell you about what I was experiencing about a week ago, and hence had my refeed ordered on my clinic's advice:

Originally Posted by new_ruby

* cannot get warm - hands and extremities are freezing
* have shoulder & neck pain, and aching around the back of my rib cage & top of my hips
* despite feeling really lethargic and exhausted during the day, I've been waking up really early in the morning - have been awake since 4.15am today (yesterday it was 5am) !!
* am starting to crave carbs again
* am finishing all my rice cakes and fruit by the middle of the day coz I'm feeling so hungry
* dizzy, faint and nauseous at times

However, after agreeing to let all other 'variables' pass, such as TOM & trying to get back into early nights and increase my amount of sleep, I have actually found that everything except the hunger and back ache has abated.
So, now that I am still sitting at 1.4kgs above my Cohen's upper limit of 56kgs (my range is 53-56), I am planning to stay on the original plan for another week, and then give refeed a go.
In my opinion only, I think all the other symptoms were telling me 'it's time', but the power of the mind is an amazing tool; and I think that perhaps just getting through another week will help in the end. Of course, this is what I have decided suits me, and if you feel as though you're going to eat the leg off a chair, then GO FOR IT !!
Well done to you too !
Ruby

[NewLou!]

Hi new ruby!
It's great to hear from someone going through the same symptoms at the same time! I have been feeling so cold too! You are right the power of the mind is an amazing tool! I am hoping to start refeed on fri but will take it day by day, like you all of my other symptoms have disappeared except for the hunger and lethargy. So far I am coping fine so will see what happens. All the best for the rest of your journey! So close now!
thanks again!
lou

[Ellabelle]

Hello

This is a great thread! Thank you for starting it!!!

I'm sitting about 600g above the upper limit of my recommended range of 53-56kg, I'm finding that I'm getting a little hungry about 30 minutes before my main meals, but that a glass of water fills me up and gets me through to the next meal quite easily. I'm finding my back is a little sore, but I think that may also be contributed to having changed desks at work. I've swapped my office chair for a swiss ball and the back pain has eased off quite a bit.

Can I assume that when the hunger gets more severe and regular that I'll be ready for refeed? Is it normal to still have obvious fat deposits when you are ready for refeed (ie thighs, stomach etc) I'm really not sure when exactly to start. I certainly don't want to start too early and put on weight...

[Annabelle Joy]

I think it's normal to still have some fat, Ellabelle. There are very few women who have perfect bodies and even they have some fat under the skin, just not much and evenly distributed. The fat on the problem areas is the last to go (that's why they are problem areas) so if you were to get all of it off, the other parts of you would be anorexic.

It doesn't sound like you are ready for refeed just yet. My understanding is that when the hunger hits it's not a gradual thing (I didn't experience that). My experience with backache was similar -- not mild pain, serious backache.

AJ

[yeti]

Hi,
I know this is an old post, but I thought I'd put in my two cents worth.
I have just reached the upper end of my goal range, and my refeed has been ordered. I hopefully will have it in two or three days, and I plan to start it as soon as I get it. I'm hopeful that I will have lost a bit more weight before I start in four days time, but if not, then I'm happy at the weight I am.

As for refeed symptoms, I'm very hungry, I'm finding it hard to wait the 5 hours between meals, I'm feeling very cold and my back is aching.

Saying that, we are having our first serious winter weather here in Perth, so that may explain feeling cold and hungry! Also my TOM is due, and I always get a sore back the week before it comes. So, could my refeed "signs" be normal feelings that would happen whether I'm at the end or not?

Sure they could. But I've put my faith in this programme, in Dr Cohen, and he hasn't steered me wrong yet. He has told my what my goal range is, and I've reached it. By the time I start refeed, I should be in the middle of my goal range. I'm happy with that.

It's exciting and scary to be finishing stage one of the programme. It's been annoyingly strict at times, but comforting too. Sticking to it has meant that it's worked. It has taken the guesswork out of losing the fat that has made me miserable. That's why I'm following what the Doctor ordered as to when I should start refeed, even though my refeed signs could be explained by other factors. I trust him, and he says this is the weight I should be at.

[Hayley23]

Yeti,

Great work on reaching your goal. It does very much sound like you have done the right thing by ordering your refeed. I sympathise with what you say about some symptoms perhaps being related to TOM. Our bodies are so complex and in so many ways are alike - but then again, we are also very individual. Personally I am almost 2kg below the lower end of my Cohen's weight range and don't feel any different to how I did say 2 months ago! Arrggh sometimes it's hard to know wether to start it shortly or to continue to wait for some signs to hit me like a thunderbolt!

[Kohinoor]

Hi Hayley,

I hope you've ordered refeed anyway !! You can still choose to hold off starting for up to 6 weeks. But, if the hungries hit tomorrow, you could be waiting up to a week to get refeed (and having to stay DFree as your bod cries out for MORE )

Koh

[Hayley23]

Ohhh Koh don't you worry I have it all worked out. I am due another blood test this Tuesday anywayz so I figure i'll hang ten and get that done given the fact I'm STILL - yes STILL not feeling any intense hunger that would allow me to devour a small child (exaggeration).

Then I think I will order my refeed so its here and waiting. I don't want to lose a lot more weight anyway. Oh so its 6 weeks grace period before we have to start? I was wondering about that...

[Bibby]

Can anyone tell me how long the max period is for being on the refeed program?

[Kohinoor]

Hi Bibby,

I recall seeing anything from 14 days to around 22 days. It might stretch outside that, but it is not common....

BTW, not many are as high as 22 (since you are asking about maximum). the most common # of days I've seen is around 15 - 18, with a few going to 20, and VERY few above that.

Koh

[Bibby]

Thx Koh!

[Kohinoor]

Hey Bibby,

It's no big deal, but thought I'd let you know.....

Your ticker shows an abnormally high BMI. I suspect you might be around 1.6m tall - but you've entered it as 1.06 (makes a HUGE difference to the ticker )

Of course, it doesn't affect the good work you've done - it just looks a bit strange

Over to you,

Koh

[FlaMie]

Oh! This is just the thread which I need MOST at the mo.

I'm moving into a dilemma stage which I think many people out here will probably think that it is way too early to think about. My goal weight range is 51-54kg. So, going by the highest of the goal weight range, I should still have close to 9kg to go before hitting refeed. However, I was told I should order my refeed at 2kg above my goal weight...so question now is: is it gonna be 2kg above the top of my goal weight or bottom goal weight? My own personal sense is to hit 56kg and order refeed. 57kg was the lightest I ever got to as an adult at 21? I've never quite seen or weighed any lower than that before. So, I can foresee a huge plateau hitting me at 57kg.

I'm currently feeling a constant backpain all over from shoulder down. I get dull hip pain too. I'm not particularly hungry as yet... nothing I can't quite deal with but the pain is kinda irritating that I want to get down to rest all the time. I also get headache now plus I do feel tired, not as energetic as I first began the journey. So, I really don't know if I should push till 51kg? If so, that will mean another 11kg before ordering refeed?

I thought of ordering refeed at 56kg so that at least if I get to the point of hunger no return... I can quickly whip out the refeed programme and starts on it. However, I'm also afraid that if I order my refeed too early, would the blood result be inaccurate to prepare for my refeed programme?

Oh yes, I forgot to add that I'm constantly feeling very cold now. Geez...I can't even stand the aircon for too long without having to hide under my quilt or turning the aircon off. I don't even feel particularly humid at 33 degrees Singapore!

Also, beginning to have my mind wondering of deviating. So far, only deviated on the HK trip but don't know how long more I can hold on. Do you guys get gastric pain? I haven't got it for months since on Cohen. However, due to the recent increase in hunger, I'm beginning to feel it again!

Anyone out here care to help?