Lessfatty's Diaries

[banana split]

Is the slice of bread specified type and weight, LF, or can you choose what you like.

BS

[lessfatty]

It says a "machine sliced" piece of bread, anyway I purchased a good quality machine sliced bread.

[Kristine..]

The first time I ate bread I ate it as if it was crispbread ie in small pieces and not with a meal.

Bad mistake!

It acted like a sponge in my gut and boy! did it clog me up to the point of producing a small 'pile', so I actually had to go to a doctor to get this 'pile' or hernia looked at!

When eating bread please eat it with a meal, and make sure there is extra water to compensate for it.


Now that I am so aware of what I eat and the effects it has on me, any of the refined wheat flour products have a 'stodgy' effect on me for at least one day afterwards. For example, I have decided that if caught out anywhere that I eat a standard meat pie (I prefer a frittata or a quiche but pies are universally available) - and I eat all of it, but at least the ratio of protein to carbohydrate is higher than eating eg a cheese sandwich. I make sure the pie is accompanied by at least two standard glasses of water so that the pastry doesn't do the sponge thing.

But I feel 'hungover' the next day, those carbohydrates really have a lot to answer for!


So plan how to eat the bread, it is a real shock to the system after not having had any for how long, lessfatty - six months?

Cheers

Kristine

[lessfatty]

Sun 18-Mar-2007 Refeed Day 2
[size=9px](Refeed menu day 5, 60grams extra old protien, 40grams extra old vegetables, 1 extra good fruit and 1 slice of bread one less cracker serve)[/size] Today's Weight: 78.2KG (+0.2KG)
Breakfast: Yogurt with Kiwi and Apple.
Lunch: Chicken and Vegetable stir "fry"
Dinner: Seafood Curry with Vegetables Large size
Fluids: 2.4 Liters.
Deviations: None

Small increase from yesterday after the bread and fruit, not +1.0KG or more that the refeed process indicates that I need to step back 2 days.

No problem with bread yesterday, it was brown bread with tomato I ate it just before I started my seafood curry. I had also an extra fruit 4 fruit items for the day. The only faint problem is that I have felt more hungry today than normal...hinting at increases in Carbs may have had an effect on my system.

I have been considering life after Cohen, whilst the refeed document has some sound principles for maintaining my weight I wanted to understand more. Baloo suggested the GI, I was also interested in Akins after diet management and I found another book on serotonin and diet.

So I have ordered on amazon the following 3 books which I plan to read over the course of the refeed so after the refeed I will have a much much better plan to maintain and I hope slowly improve my current shape eg. reduce the flubber on my tummy[list=a][*] Feel Good Diet, that has links to serotonin and insulin management a very key feature of the Cohen diet. There was another book "Serotonin Power Diet" which I didn't buy, it looked interesting yet was overlapping in content and I may purchase it latter.[*] The GI Diet. which is based on keeping Insulin levels at reasonable levels.[*] Atkins for Life Center around keeping your body hovering at or near Ketosis, which is debatable bad for your body, but clearly I have been in such a low ketogenic state for 6 months with a low carb diet without ill effects.[/list]

[baloo]

Living in Japan, I think you'll find the GI eating method relatively easy. It's all about good carbs as opposed to no carbs. i.e. Japanese Sushi Rice is very low GI but Thai Jasmine rice is really bad. Multigrain bread good, white bread bad, beans good, pasta (because it's made with duram(sp?) wheat) is good etc etc.

When I first read it, it felt like a very sensible way to live. But what I needed was rapid weight loss so it wasn't for me at the time.

[Kristine..]

G'Day

Bread definitely makes me 'hungry' - I ate and enjoyed a toasted sandwich about three hours ago for a late lunch and I am rumbling very loudly now, which makes me think I am 'hungry' but the system obviously produces lots more eg hydrochloric acid to break down the starches, also I did not at any time experience flatulence on the program, but as soon as breads, pastas etc were back on the menu the 'normal' level of flatulence returned!

So I will do an egg & veg meal for dinner, no toast.

lessfatty, Cohen's maintenance notes suggest very strongly that if refeed has been done correctly there should be no need for weighing, measuring, counting calories etc

You have done this program to release yourself from every having to 'diet' again. I appreciate that after some months on this program you may feel - as I did - that you want a 'program' to continue with.

I have discovered that 'everything in moderation' works well, but what I actually want to eat now is different that previously.

BC favourite foods are not AC favourite foods. Before Cohen's I used to love bread rolls with butter, pariser sausage, cheddar cheese, tomato sauce - and usually two bulging rolls, not just one!

Now, I don't think I have had this more than one time since June 2006. After I ate it, I realised that I just didn't like all the salt, I could really taste the preservative in the sausage, it all tasted a bit stale and I felt really stodgy for hours afterwards.

You know your body better now than you did previously. Yes, reading is good, but listening is better. Listen to your body, it will tell you what it wants, what it enjoys, and what makes it sick.

Now that you have allowed it to heal, it will take a while to stabilise but you will realise that it is really quite clever, so let it guide you and all will be well.

Cheers

Kristine

[lessfatty]

Originally Posted by Baloo

Living in Japan, I think you'll find the GI eating method relatively easy. It's all about good carbs as opposed to no carbs. i.e. Japanese Sushi Rice is very low GI but Thai Jasmine rice is really bad. Multigrain bread good, white bread bad, beans good, pasta (because it's made with duram(sp?) wheat) is good etc etc.

When I first read it, it felt like a very sensible way to live. But what I needed was rapid weight loss so it wasn't for me at the time.

I will read through the GI diet and in particular maintainance section. I think low GI is quite possible and easy to incorporate into my life. Japanese being the world's least obese yet developed country along with Korea must be doing something right, also it put a hole in the Atkins foundational theory that high carbs is the primary reason of being overweight. Japanese eat a lot of carbs, rice, rice, rice, wheat noddles (Ramen), breads etc. However consumption of low GI carbs may suggest that in general not overstimulating insulin response is critical for keeping obesity in check.

[lessfatty]

Mon 19-Mar-2007 Refeed Day 3
[size=9px](Refeed menu day 6, 60grams extra old protein, 80grams extra old vegetables, 1 extra good fruit and 1 slice of bread one less cracker serve)[/size]
Today's Weight: 78.0KG (-0.0KG)
Breakfast: Yogurt with Kiwi and Apple.
Lunch: Chicken and Vegetable soup. 1/2 slice of bread, Kiwi and Apple
Dinner: A 190gram Steak (its HUGE!), Mushrooms, Asparagus, Onion, Green Pepper stir fry with 1/2 slice of bread and tomato...a feast
Fluids: 3+liters
Deviations: None

Today's weight back to 78.0KG so no stepping backwards on the refeed plan.

Wow last night (seafood curry) dinner was just huge, I really felt very full for the first time on Cohens. Already prepared my meals for this week until Thursday, but I will need to consider increasing the amounts of food at each meal rather than trying to eat it all at dinner. More Yogurt for breakfast, more proteins for lunch.

What I would really like to try is a two egg omelet for breakfast I am not sure if two eggs are allowed during refeed certainly they are old protien, but it is not explicity stated in the refeed document. I am thinking to weigh an egg and consider it's weight as part of the extra protein allowance for the day. I think however I will wait until the mixed protein stage for the refeed towards the end of the week and I will have a mozzarella cheese, tomato and egg omelet for breakfast.

Reading Akins for life book last night, very interesting reading. Looking forward to contrasting recommendations it has with GI Diet and the Serotonin diet recommendations.

[Peter 14.7]

Thanks for updates LF.

I agree a one egg omlette is low on egg.

As for bread do you have to have it? Or is it optional.

I tried Atkins and whilst it worked well , wife could not follow it. I feel it is too severve re the low carbs. Your point on the Korean?japanese link is interesting. I think it's popularity is more becasue of the "fat is good" mantra but really, it simply cannot be. I have lost more and faster on Cohens than Atkins which was 3kg ish.

Essentially I think the problem is us Aussies we live a modern fast food convienice diet. It is easier to buy pre-coated, pre stuffed chicken then organic chicken we prepare and cook ourselves.

The french traditonally are not fat whilst eating fat and crossaints ( butter) but since they have gone to the modern diet they are getting fatter.

It has no filling and triggers hunger response.

Your idea of going Low GI is right on the money I think.

Peter 14.7

[lessfatty]

Originally Posted by Peter 14.7

Thanks for updates LF.

I agree a one egg omlette is low on egg.

As for bread do you have to have it? Or is it optional.

I tried Atkins and whilst it worked well , wife could not follow it. I feel it is too severve re the low carbs. Your point on the Korean?japanese link is interesting. I think it's popularity is more becasue of the "fat is good" mantra but really, it simply cannot be. I have lost more and faster on Cohens than Atkins which was 3kg ish.

Essentially I think the problem is us Aussies we live a modern fast food convienice diet. It is easier to buy pre-coated, pre stuffed chicken then organic chicken we prepare and cook ourselves.

The french traditonally are not fat whilst eating fat and crossaints ( butter) but since they have gone to the modern diet they are getting fatter.

It has no filling and triggers hunger response.

Your idea of going Low GI is right on the money I think.

Peter 14.7

The refeed document indicates if bread causes you a problem (bloating, feeling sick) then I can simply choose not not eat it again. So far so good for me however.

Whilst Atkins is low carb, moderate fat, Cohens is low fat with a low to moderate intake of low GI carb (if you eat fruit and crackers which are optional). I consider Cohen diet to provide a base line; a "bare bones minimum" nutritional requirements across each of the main food types "carbs" "fats" "proteins" and trace nutrients.

I agree with you in regard Akins; we cannot pretend fat consumption doesn't matter with weight loss, I think our bodies will choose to metabolize food first, before triggering metabolism of our body fat (lipolysis). It makes clear sense that the more fat we eat our body will eat less of our fat.

In Japan most of the guys on my team don't cook ever (almost never), they eat takeaways 3 times a day, yet they are not fat convenience foods to the extreme, so I think it has everything to do with the choice of foods, the guys on my team are absolutely not eating 3 meals of McD's a day. Rice, low fat proteins (grilled fish) and vegetables would be my characterization of what they eat mostly and not big servings either.

[lessfatty]

Tue 20-Mar-2007 Refeed Day 4
[size=9px](Refeed menu day 7, 60grams extra old protein, 80grams extra old vegetables, 2 extra good fruits and 1 slice of bread one less cracker serve)[/size]
Today's Weight: 77.4KG (-0.6KG)
Breakfast: Yogurt with Kiwi
Lunch: Tuna, Vegetables Stir Fry
Dinner: A 190gram Steak Mushrooms, Salad
Fluids: 3+liters
Deviations: None

Down to 77.4KG today, nice drop. Means I have lost a total of 100lbs, I would be very very lucky to lift 100lbs higher than my waist.

Last night youngest daughter (a born monkey) fell off the chair she was standing on the arms of reaching for a book on a highest shelf, and very badly cut her forehead, blood everywhere, did the right thing, applied pressure to the wound, cleaned it as best I could and applied bandages to bring the cut skin together and limit the bleeding, gave her some warm chocolate milk to help calm the shock however when it is your child covered in blood a real sense of panic sets in. After a trip to emergency and 3 stitches, everything is OK. Maybe she will need some minor cosmetic surgeon touch up latter to avoid the Harry Potter look.

Took a day off work to take her for a check up to the same hospital, will bring her back on Sat for the stitches to be removed.

[Peter 14.7]

Hope your daughter comes through ok.

What age is she?

Peter 14.7

[asy]

My daughter has a Harry scar too...

Consequence of scootering down a very steep hill, with no helmet and trying to turn the corner at the bottom and having a very close conversation with a steel post instead... Boy oh boy do scalp lac's bleed!

She ended up with stitches too. Now has a scar. May need plastics some day, but we'll cross that bridge later...

asy

[lessfatty]

Peter, my youngest is 7 years old, grade 2 at school.
Scalps and foreheads bleed like rivers, covering clothes hands, faces everything in blood. However maybe she only lost 100mls of blood but boy did it go far!!!! We will have to wait to see how it heals and take any plastic surgery as it comes, need to keep the scar out of the sunshine however.

I had a worse case when I was a similar age, thrown out of the back window of my mums car in an accident due to other drivers negligence, drunk and though a stop sign (1965 Holden without seat belts in the back), 22 stitches in my head and gravel rash all over, how lucky I am to be alive. Easy touch now for any car selling "safety", I think my car has 9 separate airbags

[lessfatty]

Wed 20-Mar-2007 Refeed Day 5
[size=9px](Refeed menu day 9, 90grams extra old protein, 80grams extra old vegetables, 2 extra good fruits and 2 slices of bread 2 cracker serves)[/size]
Today's Weight: 77.2KG (-0.2KG)
Breakfast: Yogurt with 1 whole Kiwi and 1 whole Apple
Lunch: Prawn and Fish Salad, 2 flat breads which I will count as bread.
Dinner: Big 210gm. Steak, vegetables, Salads, 2 fruits, Crackers
Fluids: 3+liters
Deviations: Lunch was outside, about 30grams was avocado, dressing wasn't sure. Decided to eat the avocado, I could have moved it to the side of the plate as I would have done during core Cohen program...




Definitely too much food yesterday and I am not even 1/2 way thru the refeed process, and even more food today, and tomorrow is just a orgy Ate breakfast with extra large amount of fruit (1 1/2 servers), was planning a bread but could think of eating more, so just a serving of crackers.

After today I can choose not to eat larger amounts of proteins, looking forward to mixing proteins however, particular cheese with meats.

Update: Dinner was just too big, had a terrible stomach ache and nusea and had to lay down. Maybe it was something I ate or it was everything I ate. Tip if you are on refeed SPREAD the extra proteins, vegetables etc over the day as much as possible.

[lessfatty]

Thu 22-Mar-2007 Refeed Day 6
[size=9px](Refeed menu day 11, 90grams extra old protein, 120grams extra old vegetables, 2 extra good fruits and 2 slices of bread 2 cracker serves)[/size]
Today's Weight: 77.5KG (+0.3KG)
Breakfast: Yogurt (200grams) with Mango
Lunch: Chicken Soup with Vegetables, 2 Kiwi, Crackers
Dinner: 185gram Snapper fillet, Mushrooms, Aspargus, Spinach
Fluids: 3+liters
Deviations: Soy Sauce at Dinner.

Well after yesterday nearly vomiting my dinner I will be spreading out the food for day 6 of the refeed.

Asthma is definitely the best I have ever had it in my life, I have had asthma since 7 years old and quite dependant on preventatives (Seretide), I was not a fat kid, I only really put on weight after I started work (20's), it makes me think that I have had some kind of hidden allergy.

Interesting to note the rise in childhood Asthma almost directly correlates to the rise in childhood obesity. Although this Obesity, Asthma link appears is proximal rather than directly related ( Obesity doesn't directly cause asthma and Asthma doesn't directly cause obseity). Like almost everything begin fat doesn't help our health nor Asthma.

So my idea for the day (worthy of research?) is that the modern starch/sugar based diets that constantly over triggering Insulin or one of the host of other hormones responses linked to starch and sugar metabolic control may in fact have in many people the side effect or (overload) causing overreaction/extreme sensitivity by the mast cells when triggered any of the standard Asthma inducing triggers such house dust, cold air, moulds, dust mites.

Last month I tried stopped taking Seretide and weesing returned, so I restarted taking it. Now I am now trying a phased reduction plan to see at what level (lower) of the drug I need to take to prevent weesing (the first slight signs of Asthma) returning. This is certainly a very very welcome and unexpected life improvment for me.

[lessfatty]

Fri 23-Mar-2007 Refeed Day 7
[size=9px](Refeed menu day 13, 120grams extra old protein, 120grams extra old vegetables, 2 extra good fruits and 3 slices of bread )[/size]
Today's Weight: 76.4KG (-1.1KG)
Breakfast: Yogurt (200grams) with Kiwi and Apple
Lunch: Fresh Tuna, Salad
Dinner:
Fluids:
Deviations: Will not be a good day as far as deviations, out for lunch and dinner. But I will just stick to Cohen foods and if I don't feel 1/2 as stuffed as I have done the past few days I know I will be at or under. The only difference is I will have 2 drinks tonight. Reading the refeed doc I can exchange 1 slice of bread for 1 drink. So I will not be eating bread today :twisted:

BTW Got a hemorrhoid, the last time I got one was in Paris when I ate...oh no...BREAD (Baguette). I feel sad that bread causes me problems!!!! I really love eating good quality breads, will investigate if it is yeasty breads or just any flour containing item. Back to Crackers for a few days!

[baloo]

I see you are still dropping decents weights during refeed. In the 76Kg range now. At your height, you must be resembling a bean pole !

Have you noticed skin tone improving ? My biggest concern, as with a lot of people on this diet I guess, is the folds of skin that will remain. I've thought about starting situps at home, just to help the gut flab tighten up.

Interesting also that you are no longer feeling too full after adding more mass to your meals. My guess is that your stomach is starting to stretch out again after months of being on a reduced intake.

[lessfatty]

Originally Posted by Baloo

I see you are still dropping decents weights during refeed. In the 76Kg range now. At your height, you must be resembling a bean pole !

Have you noticed skin tone improving ? My biggest concern, as with a lot of people on this diet I guess, is the folds of skin that will remain. I've thought about starting situps at home, just to help the gut flab tighten up.

Interesting also that you are no longer feeling too full after adding more mass to your meals. My guess is that your stomach is starting to stretch out again after months of being on a reduced intake.

Don't look like a bean pole, I guess that look would be around 70KG. My scales say I have a body fat of 19.9%, to get the bean pole look I guess would be around 13% and 15%~22% is ideal for 40 year old guys. I am not the most muscle bound. I have reached my slim and trim goal, except for the frustration of the irremovable flubber around my middle. My friend who is just 1 or 2cm shorter than me but who is a 5th dan Akido (and practices every day) weights in at 84KG he actually looks slimmer than me...but of course he has muscle mass/tone and I dont

One thing I can feel is the bones in my back, in particular shoulder blades pressing against wooden chairs or the bath etc, a feeling I had forgotten

The problem around my tummy is that I can feel my muscles under my flab, I am not sure how much having stronger stomach muscles would help reduce the flubber which sits above the muscle (lose inelastic skin over lose fat), it wouldn't hurt however . The best thing would be that the remaining fat is slowly redistrubuted to other places (or even better lost completely) and the skin tone improves over time. I am thinking if there is any way to "target" fat loss in these areas.

[Lonniecee]

LF said "I have reached my slim and trim goal, except for the frustration of the irremovable flubber around my middle."

Just wondering LF is it really fat or just a lot of loose skin 'sagging' at the lower point?

Laying in bed the other morning I was surprised I could actually feel my pulse through my abdo/tummy area and could palpate it up and down the abdominal wall, not much padding between my aorta (?) and the outside wall now is my guess.

Lauren