Do other "healthy" foods become normal on refeed?

[FatCat]

I've read a lot of the refeed posts on "so what CAN you eat once you've made it?" and they all seem to talk more about alcohol, chocolate etc. - which are important, don't get me wrong!! but I'm actually wondering more about the "healthy" stuff.

Like vegies: carrots, corn, brocolli? I miss my baby corns in my stir fries...
And fruits: watermelon, rockmelon, pears?

Condiments like vegemite, soy sauce, mustard etc. are all fairly innocent I would have thought, and wholegrain bread occasionally seems smart, or have I not been on Cohen's long enough to know who the real demons are?!

And what are the serving sizes like?

So many questions... it's like dreaming about what it's like when you die!

[meagain]

FatCat,

I am not sure if you are asking do your taste buds change?
This was my reaction to milk after not having it for 20 weeks:
quote author=meagain link=topic=581.msg9558#msg9558 date=1192004306]
Well, coffee with milk tasted blah!!!!!!!!!

No after effects, but gee when I think that I craved milk with my coffee for the first 3 weeks - what a waste of a craving!

It tasted sweet and infantile - I'll be able to go without it. Gee, to think I gave up 40gms of old protein for that.
[/quote]

Are you asking is this all I get to eat for ever?

Well, yes, I really missed carrots, now I'll eat them but I tend to prefer program vegies for most of the time, broccoli I have bit of. Other foods are reintroduced.

Are you asking will you change as a result of the program?

As the program helps clean your taste buds, I have found that I prefer not to have a lot of vegemite or soy sauce or mustard now, it's a rare and occassional treat - maybe twice a week.

I don't tend to have bread as much, reintroducing it on refeed made me bloat and visit the toilet a lot, I believe a lot of people have similar reactions. During refeed the thought of eating 3 slices a day was offputting. Yes, I have bread now, maybe every second or third day, maybe two slices and I usually don't have butter on it.

What Cohen's does is clean and retrain your taste buds, a banana now is a real treat, I can smell and taste the sugar in it. After a while on the program, you recognise that the small bit of this, the little bit of that during the day, the week the month, adds up to a lot of empty calories or food. All those condiments, unless they are the gourmet ones, have nasty little preservatives designed to extend shelf life, and it ends up on your hips, tummy, thighs for ever.

My servings at the end of refeed were larger than what I consumed before I started the program. I couldn't eat my last day of refeed food every day - I'd pop. I cut out the extra fruit and crispbread. I try to keep my veg balanced with my protein though, too little protein stops me from burning the fat.

I have changed to one or at most two coffees a day - mostly decaf now. I can recognise the sugar cravings that too much caffeine trigger. Instead of thinking I am hungry, I think I must need a glass of water or a chewie, I only ate 2 hours ago. Instead of mindlessly grazing, I think a bit more about what goes in my mouth. Instead of heading for hte dessert menu, or the cake and coffee option, I really consider it. What do I want to give up to have that? Do I really want to do an extra hour on the bike for that cake - will it be worth it?

Look, I am not saying that I am St meagain, or over all my food demons but Cohen's certainly helped.

I didn't think about refeed and beyond until I was close to it, for me I thought it was unnecessarily torturing myself.

Cheers

[kagiesen]

My re-feed and maintenance guide say the following:

Carrots and broccoli are re-introduced on re-feed so are fine on maintenance. There are no 'bad veggies' once you've reached re-feed.

Corn is re-introduced BUT as carbs of which you are allowed 50 gr PER DAY unless you exercise (on maintenance).

Rockmelon is re-introduced as Good fruit, so fine on maintenance. Same with black-, Goose, - Blue-, and Mulberries, pineapple and Plum

Watermelon and pears are re-introduced as bad fruit, hence to be eaten with caution as trigger insulin response. Also 'bad' are banana, figs, strawberries, cherries.

Bread: up to 3 slices, but only if you don't put on weight, so they are slowly re-introduced in re-feed. I'm on my last day of re-feed and bread has been just fine for me.

Condiments: says nothing in program, but I suggest: re-introduce them one at a time for a few days until you're sure they don't increase weight. Don't re-introduced two or more things at a time, otherwise, if you put on weight, you don't know which one it was.

Serving sizes I find HUGE: based on what you have during program, on last day of re-feed you're allowed about: 200 gr new protein (other meat), but minus 80 old protein, 200 gr new veg, 3 slices of bread, on of them with butter, 50 gr carbs (rice, pasta, corn), 50 ml milk (but then need to reduce protein by 40 gr, 2 plain biscuits, 200 mls alcohol. Believe me, it's huge! And that you have for rest of your life, can increase carbs if exercising.

Also, on maintenance, you can start experimenting with: dark chocolate (not more than 50 gr per serve, not more than 2x a week, always within 1 hour of protein meal), deserts, etc, all with a few rules regarding when and how much, and always weight yourself next morning to see what impact they had.

Cheers

Katrin

[pandora]

I have a question that could fall into this category for all the beyond refeed grads. Re the humble AVOCADO. I do not see it mentioned on my refeed & lifestyle plan. I do know from my clinic that GRAPES do not feature as a good or bad fruit, but as a NEVER again fruit. Is that true of AVOCADO as i dont see it mentioned as good or bad fruit or veg. I would ask the clinic but it is closed for a couple of weeks. Anyone KNOW the answer? Pandora

[jackie]

I'd love to know the answer to avocado too!

Katrin - I asked my clinic about using condiments during refeed and they said don't use them until you are in maintenance. Hope that helps.

FatCat - you might want to change your name ... you are thinking more like a ThinCat I've been structuring up my food planner for life after refeed too. Looking forward to shaping the family's menu to align with Cohen maintenance principles so that we can all eat TOGETHER for a change.

All the best,

Jackie

[FatCat]

Thankyou Katrin, that's exactly what I was after! Being able to plan ahead makes the world of difference I think. Helps you stop focusing on the day to day "grind" kwim??

Like Jackie said - I am looking forward to helping my whole family be healthier; and eat together for a change! (I currently cook 4 meals a night - one for the baby, one for my 3 & 4 yo, one for my husband, and one for me!!)

[kagiesen]

Hi FatCat

I reckon your family apart from the baby maybe, could easily eat Cohens food. It's healthy, nutritious, and if you add some carbs (a few!) for them such as some pasta or rice, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to eat the stuff. They might object at first, but especially with your kids, they should be on a healthy diet from a young age, otherwise they'll have weight problems later. Dunno what you're feeding them, but my little nieces (2.5 and 2) and another friend's kids eat nearly everything on the planet. My niece hates chocolate and Nutella (reckons they look like kaka) and loves olives and cucumber and garlic squid and my friend's boys love oysters Kilpatrick etc. Get them used to it now, otherwise they'll be fussy eaters for life!


You're doing a great job!

Cheers

Katrin

[FatCat]

Originally Posted by kagiesen

I don't see why they wouldn't be able to eat the stuff. They might object at first, but especially with your kids, they should be on a healthy diet from a young age, otherwise they'll have weight problems later. Dunno what you're feeding them, but my little nieces (2.5 and 2) and another friend's kids eat nearly everything on the planet.

My eldest boy is hugely fussy. He'll eat cold pasta - plain - or toast with vegemite, and that's about it! I have always had a really healthy approach with the boys. Made sure they had fruit and vegies every day, and they very rarely eat junk or takeaway. But #1 is hard, and #2 idolises him so generally follows his cue. I'll persist though.

I'm certainly looking forward to the day we can all sit down and eat a meal together. We're getting there, it's just sloooow progress.

[findingme]

Any answers to the avocado question? Good thread.

[Embee]

I think the right answer would be to try it and see what effect it has on you. After all that is what maintenance is about, slowly reintroducing foods and monitoring their effect. I for one eat avocado regularly and find it has little impact on my weight, but others might not find that is the case.