asy's thoughts on Deviation...

[asy]

OK...

My turn now Wink

Apologies in advance to anyone I offend.

Recently I've been reading lots of people's deviation comments and excuses. (Seems recently there have been many more than 'usual')

There's one thing you guys need to understand about this programme. It's a little like being pregnant, you either ARE or you AREN'T, there's absolutely NO half way.

What ARE you guys doing to yourselves? There's NO wonder you're finding the programme difficult, it's almost as if some are looking for excuses to deviate so you can post about it. Sort of a Munchausen's of dieting???

Don't misunderstand. I know we're here for support, but, this whole deviation plague is going overboard. Since the Deviators Confession thread was closed down, it seems a whole pack of people have moved over to another thread with the same constant wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The idea of that thread was to beat records of NOT DEVIATING, not to continually make excuses for why you did. There are some who are following it, which is great, but some are seriously searching for ways to sabotage themselves. For example those who had to wait to start the challenge because they "just had to wait until after *insert excuse here*"

My suggestion is to give your BODY a chance to heal, stick to the programme 100% and stop yo-yoing. It IS possible, there are MANY on here who have proven that. I understand sometimes there are inadvertent deviations, I had two during my programme. In a year. I deviated twice. Once in very early days when I didn't realise there was no salmon on the programme (ya really gotta read it carefully) and once during refeed when I picked up the wrong bottle of lemonade and drank the kids' full strength rather than my diet Sad . I guess according to Jeannie's rules as set up in the first post I probably did other non 100% things (time wise, etc) but NEVER did I EVER put anything into my mouth that was not on the programme deliberately. And I did a year on the programme. 4th July 2006 - 2nd July 2007. A FULL year (except the 3rd of July, which isn't that exciting a day...)

Now, I don't want to hear a tirade of "well, just because you did, some of us can't do that..." etc... You're missing the point. I'm not strong. I'm not fantastic. There's nothing special. I just REALLY REALLY WANTED IT. I wanted to be healthy. I wanted to be fit. I wanted to... LIVE.

One other really odd things I've noticed, not sure whether anyone else has, is that those who have the most to lose, who otherwise I'm sure people would have thought had less willpower than others, seem to do the best on this programme deviation wise. Why is that? Is it because we have been faced with our own mortality? Is it because we know that if we don't do it we'll die? Why does that not apply to the people who have lesser quantities to lose? Why do you guys not feel it's worth doing 100%?

I just don't get it. I get really frustrated by it. I'm sorry, again, because I know I've offended SOMEONE out there, but it's taken me a LONG time to post this post, and there ya have it.

By the way, those of you getting the Dancing Fruits in the Deviation Free Challenge, I'm really pleased for you. I'm going to relax the "signature rules" for you, and allow animations in your signatures for those who are DEVIATION FREE. I'll organise with Jeannie the manner of the string you may put into your signature, but I think it'll be GREAT to see lots of dancing fruit all over the forum for a little while.
HOORAY FOR THOSE OF YOU DANCING WITH MANGOES!

asy.

[meagain]

Great post Asy, yet again

This is exactly what I was thinking. I also think the same about the Cohen's weight range or my own weight range debate.

[Andy46]

Thank you ASY - your post here and thoughtfulness speaks volumes.

I can honestly say that your support and wisdom are an inspiration to myself and many others - who are traveling this journey.

Your own personnel achievement is a testament to your wisdom.

Your expertise and commitment to the program have and will continue to help many.

thank you and best wishs

Andy

[bruni]

Asy - may I just say something please, as I feel that there is a huge misunderstanding - and I open this up to everyone - your thoughts would be very grateful on this discussion - as it is a discussion board/forum - and we are all here to help and support one another.

It's my understanding that you put this all together and I applaude you for what you have done - it is a great place to come and let our thoughts, emotions, feelings run free - who else can understand what we are all going through, than people that are in the same situation..struggling with our weight for whatever reason, for how many years - have finally made the decision to do something about it.....

Perhaps we should all Agree to Disagree..and move on

Would someone like to explain to me what the difference is with all this deviation - whether we have a confessional, a challenge or in our diaries - we are expressing how we feel about it all - I don't think that anyone is deliberately wanting to jeopardize their time on Cohens, some are finding it harder than others to get into the Zone - I feel that some out there really need to lighten up and stop this ridiculous assassination of what some members are trying to put together to make our time on Cohen's a little easier - they are not in anyway saying that it's OKAY to deviate - that's my interpretation of what I have read - they are actually opening up more than in their diaries...what ever happened to Freedom of Speech.

If someone has deviated - you are given a cheer up, words of wisdom..guidence to get back on track again.

I have experienced nothing but sincerity from everyone that has commented on my diary, I'm grateful for their input...and I look forward to putting my feelings down, what I'm going through at the moment - because it feels good to get it off my chest - that's why I joined the Challenge as I felt it was a good idea to change my way of thinking, and what better way of doing it by having a competition with "myself"..not to do any better than anyone else - it was with me for me..that's how I saw it...and I'd get a dancing mango as well!!...I feel that I'm being punished for expressing myself and thoughts.

Many thanks..Jules

[shell]

Found this on the American site, very, very informative on how your body reacts with the hormones, sugar and seratonin.
Hope it is helpful
http://www.1pdforum.com/showthread.php?t=40
Shell

[baloo]

Jules,

There is a difference between a deviation and not being on the Cohen's programme. If you read back some of the diaries of those that have finished, you'll see that Deviations were few and far between. In some cases "deviation" referred to an extra cracker or piece of fruit. Alcohol and non-Cohen's food/meals were considered falling off the wagon completely. Unfortunately on this programme, that is exactly how it works.

Don't kid yourself into believeing that you are on the Cohen's programme if you fall off the wagon once a week. All you are doing is eating Cohen's approved foods for the most part and reducing your intake. You are not resetting your metabolism and you are not getting into the fat burning zone.

For me the worst part of these 'deviation' threads was the blasé nature of the confessions. Even today in your diary there is the off the cuff remark of two vodka tonics. If you want to be on the programme then that sort of deviation really needs to be front and centre of any dairy entry so you start to treat it as a major stuff up, because that's what it is. By burying it half way through your diary you are not giving the deviation the focus you need to stop doing it.

We have a responsibility to all people on the forum here. To help them get through the programme until they complete it and are healthy again. By allowing major blow ups to be wrapped up as minor events that really only rate a byline in a post, we are doing a disservice to all the forum members here. If you want to sugar coat your deviations so you can justify them to yourself, that's fine, but personally, I will not allow that to become the norm on this forum. This forum helped me so much that I am indebited to it for a very very long time. I'll do whatever I can to make sure this forum can continue to help people change their lives in ways they never thought possible.

While my examples are specific to your posts, they are not intended personally but serve purely as a real life example for everyone that was feeling warm and fuzzy hiding in the deviation threads.

[asy]

Sorry, didn't have time to reply at work...

Bruni,

What can I say that Baloo hasn't said? Following on from his post, however, I do need to say, I think you missed the point in a few areas.

Firstly The big problem with threads like the one that was running is that people seem to deviate, think it means absolutely nothing, get those 'pats on the back' you mention, and move on. Wait a day or two and repeat. I was wondering whether some might have been doing it with an almost munchausen like motivation. It almost feels like "If I deviate, people will applaud me", even if that thought is not conscious, it worries me that it's there for some. It seemed to be becoming sorta like the syndrome of the child who is naughty for attention, if you know what I mean.

As Baloo's already touched on, another big problem is amalgamating all the deviations in one thread and having it as bad as a confessional... I've deviated, I've told, and now it's all OK. It's not like 'sins' that are washed away by confessing. Your body still has to deal with the ramifications of the deviation.

Go ahead and express yourself, no worries there. But don't gloss over the deviations. Don't pretend they don't matter and tomorrow you'll go on with things, unless you really DO go on with it and STOP the deviating.

Anyway, We're working on another Deviation Challenge, and it should be up soon, but will be a little more 'controlled' this time.

asy.

[Pudge]

Hats off to both Asy and Baloo great posts.......
Had it not been for them in the early days I couldn't have done this program. But because of their determination to do the program right without falling off the wagon, I was able to get to where I am now. I will be forever grateful to them both. To Asy more so for getting this forum up and going.
When I got on it and actually seen the people's losses, (I just couldn't believe it would be me saying I lost 70+lbs) read their diary's, seen their struggles along with things that was or did happen to them along the way. I was like OMG that is EXACTLY how I was feeling or THAT happened to me too, I REALLY am not the only one.

To those out their continuely 'falling off the wagon' Suck it Up' 'Cowgirl up' and get back on the wagon and quit making excuses.......You'll be dang proud of yourself when you 'Just Do It'

Get mad at me and smite me I really don't care.
pudge

[bitten]

hi there-

firstly i must preface that i am a complete, yet to get my plan newbie.
but, i am not new to the journey or the manipulations that come with it.

i am where i am today because of lapses, deviating, cheating, being off plan.....and never getting back on.

i would love to think that this could be tweaked or played with or altered or something.

i have a dear friends shower and wedding over the next 6 weeks. what will i do? how will i cope? shall i plan on lapsing from my program?

sure, if i wan to fail @ cohen's.....but i do not want to fail, or deviate or take one day longer than i need to to get to goal. i want to be part of that 5% who lose their weight and keep it off. i have to be on plan, every day....wedding or not.

every forum that i have ever been part of has had this issue, be it cohens or medifast or cambridge diet or....
you either do it 100% or you don't....it's black or white, not gray.

i just know for me there has to be complete compliance or why bother. i have never done anything 100%. i have never gotten to goal or kept it off.

so, now it's time to do it the right way.

i know, i know....i may not make many friends...i am that obnoxious newbie, all bright eyed and bushy tailed. but this is the thread that speaks volumes to me. it is why i am choosing cohen's as my final, successful weight loss journey.

i will succeed. i will be 100% on plan, all day everyday. there is no 'try'. i have tried it my way, and it does NOT work.

this will work. if i just do it.

thanks for this asy. it's a great place to be.

bitten

[asy]

Don't fret, bit,

you'll make friends.

I suspect I'll be one of them.

Welcome!!!

asy

[bitten]

thanks so much-

i am very inspired by this amazing forum, and chomping at the bit to start.(could ya tell?LOL!)
i really feel that this is my chance to finally live, learn & lose.

thanks for the support, i need it. big time-

bitten

[Annabelle Joy]

I agree 100% with everything asy and Baloo have said, but think there is another consideration also.

I'm still a relative newcomer to Cohen's (12 weeks tomorrow) but probably have more dieting experience than anyone else here (40 years). I believe/hope that this will be the last real diet I will ever have to do. However, I don't believe that is because it is this particular diet. I think it's because I've finally realised and accepted that I cannot get to the end of this then go back to eating as I did before. Yes, this diet will bring my hormones under control, but if I abuse them again, they will again malfunction. This is not a diet, it really is a lifestyle. I've deviated in the sense that I've eaten things that I thought were okay then found they weren't. However, as far as possible, I'm going to get to the end of this without eating anything that I have not weighed and cooked myself as part of my plan. Every diet I've ever done in the past (and when I started this my SIL said that I'd been dieting for as long as she's know me) I've had the small deviations -- a sip or two of my husband's wine, my usual restaurant meal when we went out, etc.

So, re the deviations. Yes, you have to follow the plan absolutely. If you keep deviating your hormones don't have a chance to settle down. However, what to me is more important is that you have to realise that this is not a few months of your life. This is your life from now on. I keep saying this in individual diaries, but getting your body right is only half of what you need to do. The other half is get your head right. You have to realise that you are not going to be able to complete this plan then go back to eating exactly as you did before. It's not magic. You have faulty hormones. You can keep them under control, but unless you look after them, they will get out of control again. If you can't get them under control in the first place because you keep deviating, how will you ever manage to keep them under control once you finish?

I believe that there are a lot of emotional reasons for many of us being overweight. We are covering ourselves with layers of fat to insulate and protect us against something that has happened to us or has threatened us. We need to identify and address that issue(s) as well as tackle the outward manifestation of the issue, the fat itself. In many of the diaries members have discussed their personal issues. Whether it is in your diary or not, I think that, in order to be successful, everyone here has to address the issue of why they overeat and their slim friends do not.

To me, a deviation is a sign that you are not really committed. If you're not committed you need to work on your head. You will not be able to maintain your goal weight unless you understand yourself. It's not necessarily going to be easy; it may be painful. It's an ongoing process as well, not something that will happen overnight

I hope I've expressed myself clearly. Others can say what I'm trying to say so much better. The support and encouragement from this forum has been an enormous benefit to me, and the diaries of others and the support and encouragement in my own diary have helped me greatly with my own journey. I am trying to repay some of that by offering what is intended to be uncritical advice and encouragement in the diaries of others.

AJ

[hexi2]

You said it beautifully AJ

[shell]

Ditto what Hexi said!
Well written and explained everyone.

That is what is so good about this forum, all the support and different opinions!
Shell

[ropemaha]

i also wanna say you got it in one aj....i COULDNT agree more.....

just one more thing....i have found, retrospectively, that my deviations have been really associated with emotional issues taht i havent managed well....i think if anyone keeps deviating then maybe its time to ask yourself 'what is it that is so challenging to me that i keep deviating'.

personally, i think that if you keep deviating, get a good counsellor and find out why and then come on here and share.....but if your devating consistently theres probably not much doubt that SOMETHING is blocking you....

pen

[asy]

Originally Posted by Annabelle Joy

I hope I've expressed myself clearly. Others can say what I'm trying to say so much better.

Yeah, you have, and no, they can't.

It was a brilliant post. Thanks AJ.

[Debs]

Considering my journey since August, I definitely think that I'm in a position to comment regarding deviation...

for those that are not aware, I was on programme from August to Jan....

Then I deviated....

Oh believe me I had my excuses...

Family court disaster
Moving house
just once or twice won't hurt..

You name it,,, I justified it...

I discovered that i had some emotional blocks in place that I needed to remove...and deal with in order to move forward..

and I did..

To deviate from the programme is not hurting anyone but yourself...Our plans are not designed for deviation, they are designed to put our bodies in harmony and equilibrium and allow us to make the emotional changes and build up our new coping mechanisms...

I have no doubt that if Dr Cohen could ahve built in a small deviation allowance he would have...It would have made the Cohens journey far more popular with the masses...

My opinion is that what it comes down to is this.
If you are consistently deviating.. you are cheating.....

not cheating in the sense of cheating on a diet....it's far more serious than that, to be honest...

You are cheating yourself out of making the necessary changes to your psyche and thought processes to make this journey a successful journey.
You are cheating yourself out of a success this time around
You are cheating yourself for not believing in yourself enough to commit entirely to the programme
You are cheating yourself out of being the person who you truly are inside.....

If have not seen any evidence of someone who has deviated regularly who has successfully completed this programme.....

It's not about being perfect and it's not about being 100%....It's about being able to make a commitment to your health both physical and emotional.... and following through...

[bitten]

thank you debs......you said it ALL!!!!!

what an incredible post, especially for this brand newbie.

thank you, from the bottom of my longing to be healthy heart-

bitten

[Debs]

Thanks bitten

When do you start?

[lessfatty]

I have a little bit of a different perspective on deviations.

In the world of biochemistry and human metabolism it would be plan and simple that scientifically there is no such thing as 100% Cohen and deviation free, it is a gray area from foods 100% fine to 100% disasters like high fructose corn syrup in soft drinks. The Cohen diet is more or less a "safe set" of foods that Dr Cohen has found works best for most people.

I completed Cohen and I think I deviated more than most. I went on a European holiday and deliberately went off the diet (but followed the after cohen diet suggestions). I had soy sauce on occasion when I had tuna (Sashimi), I didn't really actually feel that guilty doing it either. However I didn't give myself permission to indulge, in any one of the 1000s of possible comfort foods (pizza, beer).

Thus to my thinking deviation free is simply a commitment issue rather than a black and white biology issue. If you deviate never do it with carbs or alcohol, these just totally disrupt your blood hormone levels (insulin) and generate hunger feelings (drop in blood sugar) and make you feel tired and low energy (serotonin) . Even today 1 year after Cohen, if I eat a biscuit , I can eat 3, then the whole package and feel hungrier at the end and afterwards just feel tired.

Sometimes you are caught out of home (sudden work crisis, sick child) without a cohen meal, the consultant I dealt with basically said in these cases drink water (ie starve), but I suggest do your best with what you can get, even if it is the beef patties out of a big mac with a McDonald's salad without the dressing.