The End...

[Jo]

Can anyone here who's been on the refeed give us an idea of what is involved? Is it that point in time where you discover what you should never eat again?

[Kristine..]

Hi Jo

Refeed is a bit complicated but is worth the effort to get it right.

Basically, it reconditions the body to 'life after Cohen's' and gradually builds up food intake plus introduces complex foods again.

Very weird to not have to wait five hours between meals and the first day of mixed proteins really flummoxed me - I just couldn't think what to eat!

Complex food such as bread is reintroduced, also chocolate and alcohol and various fruits and vegetables.

What do I limit? Basically, carbohydrates particularly the refined variety.

Bread, cake, pastry - and don't forget that potatoes, carrots, peas, corn are all carbohydrates even though they look like vegetables!

I have stayed with the yoghurt & kiwi fruit breakfast, unless I feel like a change in which case I do the egg & veg, but I don't have toast - I figure that I know what breakfast is, whereas I don't always know what lunch or dinner will be, so I haven't fallen back into toast or cereal for breakfast just in case I have pasta or rice or potatoes etc for dinner.

I have found that 'protein' is a girl's best friend and I always take an apple, a zip lock back of vita weet crispbread and a bottle of water in the car with me.

I am not tempted with snacks and pastries any more, although I do like to have a block of dark chocolate and a jar of almonds handy. They last me a while, though, rather than just something to eat.

I avoid deserts like ice cream, but keep cheesecake in the freezer. If we go out I am happy to have a drink or three but adjust the next day.

The trick to maintaining a stable weight is to eat sensibly each day, and not to have more than one day of eating more than is necessary.

I have smaller servings than I used to have, drink more water than before, eat less confectionary and fewer boredom foods ie I don't eat because I can't think of anything else to do, and I make sure I eat at regular intervals rather than going all day without food and eating it all at night.

I weigh every day.

Other than that, I don't make an issue of eating but I don't eg eat two pies now - one is the limit - and I enjoy what I eat. In other words, if I'm going to eat it I want the food to be worth eating. I don't waste the opportunity by putting sugar in coffee or eating something unnecessary.

Even things like cordial are unnecessry, once you're used to drinking two litres of plain water each day there is really not much point in drinking juices or sweetening the water. I'd rather keep the food values for food rather than swallowing the food value just in drinks.

And I still don't get hungry so I guess I must be doing something right!

Cheers

Kristine

[Peter 14.7]

Any update Kristine, Peter 14.7

[Kristine..]

Hi Peter

?Update? I wrote the above on Feb 16 - today is March 6th - there has been no change in three weeks.

Sorry, but I am not sure what you are asking...

Cheers

Kristine

[Soon2bHotKitty]

hi kristine.

in regards to life after refeed, do you do any sort of exercise to maintain your weight? or do you just rely on your cohens guidlines entirely day in day out?

thanks

[baloo]

Shouldn't this forum be called "The New Beginning"

[Kristine..]

Hi Kitty

I have never been one for 'exercise':

In those famous words from Crocodile Dundee, when the 'local' was asked by the glamorous girlfriend 'What do you do for exercise', the reply was/is 'I work'.

Considering that I have managed to work my way through half a block of Old Gold tonight while working on reports, I couldn't say that I am following Cohen's principles 'day in, day out' either!

Seriously, unless I deliberately sabotaged myself, or ate carbohydrate three times a day, I really think that my weight is now stable at 60 kilos.

This is how it used to be: Gain a kilo, lose a kilo. When I had the child care centre I was always about two kilos heavier on a Monday than on a Friday. I stayed at about 63 kilos for years, just about all my adult life inbetween pregnancies and breast feeding (which lasted about 11 years).

The weight started to stay on after I opened a shop, and didn't eat or drink from between 10am to 6pm each day. I was obviously dehydrated and the body went into camel mode.

After that, it took about 12 years to put on the 25 or so kilos, so it didn't happen overnight, just a gradual creep.

And it really packed on, I was very solid, not blubbery fat, but my skin was stretched tight as a drum, especially the midriff area. I really did look about seven months pregnant. I did not grow a large bottom, so was flat down the back but very Tweedle-dum out the front. Not a good look.

What I like most about my shape now, is that my legs are lean, and my midriff is flat. I can feel, but not see, my ribs. I had to get my spectacles adjusted as I had lost fat even off my scalp. My shoulders are now a normal size, and shirts and jackets sit nicely across my back. Clothing hangs, rather than grabs. It's all good.

During the program I worked mornings in the cash office of the local supermarket, and probably walked a couple of kilometres each shift, just moving around the store, up and down the stairs, but my 'real' job as a mortgage broker is more sedentary except when I am working on houses, which is not all the time.

In essence, I think Cohen's program serves to illustrate that we all eat far more than we need to just fuel our bodies. The 'snacky' type foods are usually very high in food value, too, and one piece of cake is about the same energy as a whole Cohen's meal. The reliance on carbohydrates and starches is a problem with most people's eating patterns as pasta, rice, potatoes, pastry, bread etc are cheap, readily available, and of course, taste good.

I continue with the yoghurt and kiwi breakfast as I really like it, but keep an eye on lunch and dinner. I find if dinner has a carbohydrate base eg rice that I am more likely to go looking for things to nibble on later. I know that is because the carbohydrate has triggered an insulin response whereas if dinner is more a 'meat and three veg' type meal I don't feel the need to graze afterwards.

I am very pleased that the weight is remaining stable and I certainly am not 'on a diet' but I don't want to gain any weight, so am still learning my natural tolerances. Eating the chocolate doesn't seem to make any difference, but if I eat biscuits or cake it does. It's just being sensible, I guess, and not thinking that I can put whatever in to my mouth and that the rest of me won't notice.

I love being slim. I really enjoy this 'new lease on life' that the program has given me. Within a sensible range, I am just 'care full' of myself, but being care full does not extend to getting hot and sweaty and flinging myself about for no good purpose.

Anyway, it seems to be working out for me this way, I always considered that if someone had to 'rely' on artificial exercise to maintain weight then the body was obviously being either overfed or was malfunctioning in some way.

With Cohen's, we retune the body to function property and to make the body self reliant.

Exercise if that is what you like to do, but if you have to exercise to maintain weight then the body is overfed and / or underfunctioning.

There are lots of yummy things to eat, but it takes a bit of effort to find the yummy things that don't harm us.

Just my two cents worth

Cheers

Kristine

[jools]

Great post Christine. That is a very indepth version of what happens after refeed. I think we are all a little nervous about life after cohens. You seem to have it all sorted out. Well Done.......can't wait to join you

[Kristine..]

G'Day

Now that a few of us (Lessfatty, Lonniecee) have completed the program, moving into or completed refeed, this thread can become a bit more active.

Re: Lonniecee's 2007 Diary
« Reply #71 on: Today at 04:07:53 pm »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Lonniecee on Today at 09:32:08 am

I'm concerned that "Greedy Gert' still resides in me, this is a new name for the old appetite or 'my eyes are bigger than my belly' syndrome that got me to 104+kgs before Cohen's. I am pleased that I listened to my body and only had what was necessary not what I 'wanted'. I guess it is still a victory of sorts and obviously my 'illness' of obesity is not entirely cured. As things are going my refeed finishes next Wednesday, what then? Having a structured menu to choose from daily has kept me on the right track for the past 33 weeks, how will I go over the next 33, 52, etc. As much as I never ever want to go back to where I was pre Cohen's, will this be enough to keep me in line. I really hope so. Had I had ill effects from any of the foods re-introduced during refeed then I'm sure there would be little to concern me, but so far, zero, zip, nada....

<Reply from lessfatty>

"Greedy Gert", the devil inside, I love it! My metabolism has been 100% renewed after Cohen, my tastes have changed, I have changed, yet I have to consciously stop myself from simply eating stuff even when I am not hungry => food as a distraction. What ever was in me to without thinking to "try a bit" or "have another" is still part of me. Today I had a soy milk latte for morning tea, yet faced with a 2 hour boring meetings felt like buying another this afternoon to sip on, I had to stop and think "Just one a day is enough, I can have another anytime tomorrow but no more today."

Comment from me:


It is the 'Reasonable Man' test so beloved by lawyers. What is 'Reasonable'? Is it reasonable to drink four full milk drinks each day, or not? Common sense would say it is not, yet for years we can think that we can 'get away with it'.

I have just taken possession of my new shop. No kettle, no fridge, no cups. So the first couple of days it was take away coffee and drinks. Is it reasonable to have a full milk drink for, say, morning tea? Yeah, sure, so I did. I then rinsed my cup out and drank water with (bought) lunch, and went and bought a 'long black' later in the day. both cups were rinsed and kept for later.

Today, my lovely business development manager got to the shop before me, popped into the adjoining Safeway, and when I arrived there was a kettle, new cups, tea and coffee in the kitchen and milk in the little bar fridge which I had brought in from home.

I bought a nice quiche for lunch, but during the afternoon realised what refined flour pastry does - I was very thirsty so it was easy to drink about a litre of plain water during the afternoon. Nevertheless, I got home about midnight very tired and very thirsty, despite having a bottle of water in the car.

'Out in the wild' is where we realise what is a good idea and what is not. Applying the 'Reasonable Man' rule is a good guide. One full milk drink (250ml) each day is good, two is not so good, three is asking for trouble.

As at 24th April I am still at a working weight of 60 kilos, same as at 24th June, 2006. It is all about working within your natural limits, and it takes a while to determine what those limits actually are.

Asy, it should not be necessary to go back on to the program ie weighing and measuring, at all. If I have had a heavy food / drink period I find that a couple of days of yoghurt breakfasts and lunchtime egg / tuna salads is enough to drop back to the basic weight. Carbohydrates should be 'sufficient' but not excessive at any time and the rest just looks after itself.

Cheers

Kristine

[Peter 14.7]

Hi Kristine.

FYI I reread my first post here and I don’t even know what i was asking as well. I assume it was nerves?

Anyhow with only a few Kg to go before I order refeed I am interested in your posts and your experience.

Personally:

1. I am looking forward to more veggies.
2. And two egg omelettes.
3. My tastes have changed and I don’t see me going back to rubbish.
4. I propose to stick to Long Blacks s I love Coffee and as LF put it, 4 milk drinks a day is silly.
5. Eating out is going to be Cohen friendly meals and fine dining or very good cafes to make it worth while.
6. I don’t see a need to get back onto bread especially as wife is gluten intolerant so it does not lend to a mutually satisfying outing.

But I will feel weird not having a rigid system to follow. I may stay Cohen style for while so I don’t lose all order.

I will have to surf other threads as not much here in refeed.

Peter

[Kristine..]

Hi Peter

Hasn't the time gone quickly - one day you start, the next day you are finished!

I, too, miss the regime of the program. The strength of the program is it's orderliness, and the imposed discipline of boundaries.

I puzzle over 'lunch'. It is a most perplexing meal. Breakfast is under my control, and although I don't do the cooking, dinner is reasonably reliable, but lunch, well, lunch is a nuisance and a problem.

Whether taking a 'cut lunch' or buying while I'm out, I am never sure what to take or buy.

The first two weeks in my new shop I explored the local lunch shops. $5 for a few slices of chicken in a tub of rocket lost its appeal after a couple of days, the curry pies were delicious but left me thirsty and after a week of pies I had put on over a kilo.

The past week I have taken wholemeal sandwiches with ham, cheese & tomato - fresh, tasty but still too many carbohydrates. So what to do?

During the past month I have noticed a tendency to snack more of an evening, a trait I attribute to the increase in carbohydrates and thus insulin during the day. I also feel bloated and quite pudgy.

This coming week I shall organise myself the night before, pack a container of something interesting, and take a microwave in to work. At least, that way I can take stir fry or casserole or similar and just zap it when I have ten minutes to eat. I am determined to be 60 kilos on 24th June and the only way to achieve that is to give the carbohydrates a wide berth while maintaiing regular meals with sustainable levels of protein.

Not exciting to the casual observer, but remaining at 60 kilos is exciting to me. However, the price of a stable weight, as with freedom, is eternal vigilance.

No, not fanaticism, just vigilance. Keeping an eye on things, making value judgements eg the pie or a glass of wine, making the block of chocolate last a full week and not scoffing the whole lot while glazed over slumped in front of the TV.

All things in moderation. For an obese person in remission (me) I am dismayed at how quickly the old patterns can surface - but I will solve the problems of the lunch, as it is more logistical than emotional.

Cheers

Kristine

[minime]

Hi Kristine,

I'm a bit surprised with your comments about lunch. What did you do when you were on the program? Can't you continue with a similar pattern? Or have I missed something??

A bit confused

MiniMe

[Kristine..]

Hi MiniMe

I was working close to home at the local supermarket counting the money for five hours each morning, and used to come home and cook lunch when I had finished the shift. I often had afternoon and evening appointments for my business and could work the program around that (dinner) even if I didn't get home until quite late in the evening.

Now, my office is 40 kms from home, and as yet has tea making facilities only. I haven't even taken any dishes there, let alone a microwave. Essentially, I have worked from home / from the diary for years and it is taking me a bit to adjust to taking food with me.

However, the price of this disorganisation is two kilos. It may not seem like much, but I know the danger of complacency and so will go back to the pattern of taking an appropriate meal with me.

I have also been thinking about the wholistic benefits of Cohen's - the freshness of complexion, the energy, the shrinking, and realise that all these benefits are as simple as eating the right way: Protein with each meal, minimal carbohydrates, fresh ingredients, plenty of water. At least I have an inside toilet, unlike many shops where the staff have to use public toilets some distance away.

I know that holding my weight for nearly twelve months would appear to be a great result, but for me I want this result ie stable goal weight, to continue indefinitely. At my age, and with my occupation, I really need very little food. This is not an 'eating disorder', probably more like an 'eating realisation'. But if the food I eat is the wrong sort ie convenient carbohydrates, then it will make me hungry, tired, and lethargic.

I like being slim, I like being alert, and I have a long row to hoe with establishing my new business. I have no wish to make it any harder for myself by eating inappropriately.

So come Monday, armed with the microwave, I shall be back in the swing of things and much happier. Yes, all it takes is a bit of organisation and I can do that!

After all, I want to be able to achieve twelve months, then two years, then forever at this weight. I can't let two kilos slip by, and besides, bought lunches really aren't all that exciting compared to the joy and satisfaction of eating food fresh from home.

Cheers

Kristine

[banana split]

Yes, you're right Kristine, organisation is all it takes.

I have followed a gluten free diet for the past 7 years now, and I believe it has done me the greatest favour. Fast foods are out and planning ahead makes my diet high quality. (Mind you it was always over indulgent, but with great quality food.)

We routinely travel from Canberra to Sydney and in my wheat eating days would have fast food on the road, would eat in the car or a nice park with my family chomping on the regulation burgers and fries. Arrive feeling hung over and tired. Now the kids are grown and there is usually just my husband and me. I have been packing my food for some years now. My husband used to eye my food off enviously and as time went by I packed food for him too and we are both really grateful to be eating wonderful healthy food instead of the roadside purchased gloop. We arrive feeling fine with calm digestive systems and no fast food hangover.

In the early days when I became aware of my wheat intolerance I would "challenge" it and perhaps have a small serve of pasta for lunch when out with friends - I found there was an almost instaneous reaction - brain fog, stomach acrobatics (I could feel a definite unease) and extreme tiredness and mood alteration i.e. I would almost have to go and lie down. A lot of people suffer these symptons to differing degrees and are not aware that wheat may be the culprit.

The user friendlyness of the humble hard boiled egg. I have found hard boiled eggs very easy travelling companions. I leave them in shell untill I want to eat. Perfect packaging. clever chooks. So a couple of hard boiled eggs and salad vegie sticks make a mess free meal.(no stains down the front of clothes, no sticky hands in the car ) Sometimes I am thinking "same old, same old" as I prepare my food, but invariably when I come to eat it I really enjoy it and am glad I went to the trouble. Pre cohens I would be quite creative and enjoyed jazzing up my travelling food with all sorts of things to add flavour and interest. Olives, slow roasted tomato, small amount full flavoured cheese, all sorts of little tidbits from the deli. And of course these days canned salmon et al. comes in ring pull cans so a supply of these "fast foods" are a must.

Add a variety of nuts (I love tamari almonds) and a selection of luscious fruits. I kept a small stock of various "health food bars" and there is a selection with no additives etc to be had. I seem to remember there is a macadamia bar and an almond bar - ingredients nuts and glucose..........and Idon't think anything else. Also sesame seed snaps.

Enough, enough, I love good food and could go on and on.

Now even the attraction of having a purchased lunch bar salad has gone for me because the food I prepare for myself is better quality and I know that if I use dressing it is NOT a chemical coctail. The money saved from casual food bar or fast food purchases we spend on a quality dining experience........

Works for us.

A microwave will increase your options dramatically.............so Kristine, what's for lunch???

[Kristine..]

Hi BS

Thanks for your wise words.

Yesterday, I took cheese, cucumber and a packet of vita weets to work, However, the technician was down from Sydney installing the phones, and I offered to fetch him some lunch.

As usual, when someone is asked what they would like, he said 'anything' which wasn't much help. So I bought a serve each of lasagne and beef & mushrooms. He took the lasagne.

Without realising it (I continued working) I had eaten the whole container of beef & mushrooms (and onions, cream and fat). When I came home there was a roast dinner waiting for me. This morning, I felt really ill, almost hungover, and tasted really bad. So today's lunch was yesterday's cheese, and there was trout and salad for dinner, and I feel a lot better.

The young computer technician was there today, and he is on a gluten, dairy and sugar free diet (dietry restriction) because of irritable bowel syndrome. I have already prepared tomorrow's egg salad. The more I get to know about food, the more I am aware of the way it affects me (us). I don't like feeling bloated and overloaded. I do like feeling sort of like 'nothing' - in other words, the body is there, it is minding it's own business, it feels good, strong and reliable. And it's all to do with the way I feed it.

As someone who never had any restricted foods and who could (and did!) eat and drink just about anything, the purification process of Cohen's has amazed me. I thought I felt good before, but it was nothing to how good I felt during the program and how I want to feel now.

and I am determined to achieve that anniversay weight!

Cheers

Kristine

[hexi2]

I found this thread very interesting - and thanks for sharing...thought I would pull it back up to the top for the others that are on refeed...or near to

[sundaymorningstaple]

Good move. Made an interesting read considering it won't be that far down the road for me either at the rate I'm going.

[Jenniwren]

This is a great read for all, and especially good for the ones
that are about to enter refeed or close to. It gives us a
great in site to what is to come.

[bibabs]

This is brilliant. Just what I needed to read. Great post.

[elzabé van jaarsveld]

Hi, I've just joined the forum, am on 5th day of refeed (didn't know about you earlier), and I find your message inspiring! I've been worrying about having to exercise frantically in the future and of course picking up again, but you've given me hope. Many thanks.
Elzabé