Tuberose's FINAL Leap - Refeed and Life-after-Cohen's

[Tuberose]

Hi cait, andy & magenta, thanks! now i feel almost too embarrassed to accept your well wishes as i've put on weight again! but that fighting spirit is still within me! not gonna let this put me down again. i'm now on my way to fight back all the damages i've brought upon myself!

weight maintenance needs a life-time of diligent and consistent effort indeed! there's still so much i need to learn for life-after-Cohen's. hope to continue sharing in this community!

[Tuberose]

Originally Posted by pandora

Woohoo! Yippee! Fantastic! You have done it in style girl!

I have just caught up with yr diary of the last few days and of course you wont go and pig out! I so agree about our capacities for eating being reduced after months of mini mono meals! I agree with yr comment re savouring and appreciating all food more now and i agree about how its almost like a "sacred space" moment when we eat. Truly a "the body is a temple for the spirit" moment. I bought small square plates and bowls and eat all my meals on them. Always eleganty presented etc. Do you?

As Cait said, please stick around and let us know yr experience BEYOND refeed. Of course it is ok now to have that chocolate (is it still in yr fridge???) just follow the lifestyle guidelines. lots of love to you and thank you for being so supportive of me with all my dramas! and all the others. Pandora

if you have read my latest confession post, i think we can fight to be crowned the drama queen of this community! LOL!

it's my pleasure to follow your journey too! and i think it's a great idea to have smaller bowls & plates, will try to buy some smaller plates & bowls this week! yes, there are still some dark choc inside my fridge but i'm going to ask my mom to hide it away from me tonight!

[Tuberose]

Originally Posted by kagiesen

I reckon these two recommendations are the MOST IMPORTANT ones, and ones that they don't tell you about at the clinic. They often are too automatic, and mince kind of forced me/scared me into ordering re-feed, and then, when I still lost 7 kilos after the re-feed blood test, all of a sudden they tell you that the refeed program is only valid for 6 weeks. So what I want to stress is:

You are at goal weight when YOU think you are, not when the one-size-fits-all formula to calculate the weight, which is JUST based on height and feet, tells you you've reached your goal weight. That can be above or below the goal weight, I reckon for quite a few of us our feel-good weight is below Cohens range. So don't order re-feed too early.

There are only a few who lose weight on re-feed. I am so far not one of them. I am slightly pissed off by this, as I was still losing weight on the program (if slowly) and now I am not anymore, quite the contrary. Same happened to Pandora. Now, I know I can always go back on the program after refeed, but that just makes things longer, and I am getting sick of it.

So don't let anyone push you into ordering your re-feed, and if they do, insist that they give you another (FREE) re-feed program if for some reason you continue on the program and continue to lose weight and are not hungry and hence the re-feed program gets outdated!

Katrin

hi Katrin, how's your refeed coming along? yes i don't think we can lose as much during refeed and I've posted some "tips & tricks" to have better control over wt loss during refeed, hope it could be of some help to you another painful lesson i've learnt is not to stock up food & snacks before completing the programme. i think my extreme craving due to constant hunger before refeed has pushed me into stocking up snacks... my weakness is really being a snacky person. so now that i've put back some weight, i still need to find suitable snacks to fit into my low carb diet plans... hope to defeat this snack demon in me one day!

[pandora]

Thak you for your sincere honesty Tuberose, this is powerful stuff! I agree how much "easier" it is when we are on the weight loss program 100%. I also attempted refeed but went back to original plan and now back to refeed today!

I am i suppose scared i will have a similar experience to you and find it difficult to keep my weight around 52kg. At least your top weight recently did not even match the low end of cohen range for you - was it 55-58Kg?. For me, i dont even have that insurance as i am at 51kg so if i go up by 3kg as you did, i will be at the TOP of my range! Not good, might even be almost up a clothes size!

For you, you are still UNDER the low end of cohen range and aiming to get lower again. Alarm bells go off for me and i totally agree that it is a crucial time for us to be super vigilant and maintain our hard earned slim bods. We drama queens can unite! Please do not feel BAD about posting your true experience. It is priceless for others of us who have the same fears as you! It is all relevant and you are still a champ in my books! Pandora

[kagiesen]

Tuberose

yeah, thanks for those posts. For those of us close to finishing, and with the same struggles regarding wanting to be way below Cohens range, it is interesting, and humbling, and also a good WARNING to not become complacent. I, like you did, am currently thinking: what's the big deal after I'm finished, why would I put on weight again. But as you also found out, there are dangers lurking everywhere. I can quite happily see myself not changing my breakfast (yogurt and fruit), not even in portion size, so that's easy. I go out for breakfast maybe once a week, and then usually have poached eggs, a bit of toast, some grilled tomatoes and some raw spinach, so no danger there either.

I will most definitely NOT re-introduce muesli. Maybe you should think about cutting that out, too, or did you miss anything when you were just having yogurt and fruit?

Lunch is easy, too, cos I find the serving size on re-feed quite a lot. So will just stick to that, nothing extra, just meat and veg in the amount I have on last day of re-feed.

Dinner: that's more tricky. If' I'm at home, it's tricky, and if I eat out, it's even worse. Hopefully I will be able to save my allowance in bread/cracker for evenings. Won't go back to pasta except maybe once a week max. Don't particularly like rice or potatoes, so no danger there.

I don't want to ever feel so stuffed again, as you described for that one day. But I know I will, as I showed last Saturday at that kid's party with the birthday cake, yuck! So need to work on that emotionally.

Don't beat yourself up. I think it's great you're still posting here, cos I really do see this as a warning to me and others. I hope you'll get back on track real quick. I reckon if we stick with what we have last day of re-feed, and maybe allow ourselves one day of luxury, balanced by one day of real Cohens pre re-feed, then we should be fine.

Also, why are you having 2 eggs? Maybe try this with just one egg (gets really big and fluffy): separate the egg yolk, beat the egg white until sort of nearly like Pavlova style, fold into slightly stirred egg yolk, fry like and omelet. I find that's enough. I'll save the 2 eggs for the breakie out where I have 2 poached eggs.

Also, I reckon the cheese is a bit dangerous, I've noticed you're having quite a lot of that.

And you noticed on that pig out day, it's so weird, we are terribly full and yet we even snack between meals. Stuff it in, in my case. That's something you can only understand very slowly. And at the moment I can only avoid it if I actually eat only healthy food, no junk at all, then it's easier to stay away from more crap.

You're doing a great job, and you are learning from this by watching your body/weight and owning up to it. That's such a valuable lesson learned!

Good luck and stay tuned

Katrin

[meagain]

Oh, Tuberose. I can relate.

Confession is good for the sould, but hard for the hips!

I think you have remarkably well, how many people do you know who have put it all back on after a year? You're not going to as you have a fighting spirit. Well done.

Aside from my blow out, I still crave nuts for some reason.

[Tuberose]

to be updated later... meanwhile more meal plans before few more rounds of appointments next week... likely to adjust the meal plans as I go along.... still struggling to defeat that snack monster in me

Sat, 15 Dec
Breakfast: 2 eggs (remove one yolk)
Mid morn: low sugar/fat coffee
Lunch: yoghurt + muesli
Dinner: fish + veggies stir-fry + one serving of clear soup
Snacks: 4 slices of low fat cheddar cheese + 2 fruits + 4 crackers
Water: 2 to 3l

Sun, 16 Dec
Breakfast: 2 eggs (remove one yolk)
Mid morn: low sugar/fat coffee
Lunch: yoghurt + muesli
Dinner: tofu + veggie stir-fry and one serving of clear soup
Snacks: 4 slices of low fat cheddar cheese + 2 fruits + 4 crackers
Water: 2 to 3l

Mon, 17 Dec
Breakfast: 2 eggs (remove one yolk)
Mid morn: low sugar/fat coffee
Lunch: yoghurt + muesli
Dinner: tofu + veggie stir-fry and one serving of clear soup
Snacks: 4 slices of low fat cheddar cheese + 2 fruits + 4 crackers
Water: 2 to 3l

Tue, 18 Dec
Breakfast: 2 eggs
Mid morn: low sugar/fat coffee
Lunch: yoghurt
Dinner: appointment
Snacks: 2 slices of low fat cheddar cheese + 1 fruit
Water: 2 to 3l

Wed, 19 Dec
Breakfast: 2 eggs (remove one yolk)
Mid morn: low sugar/fat coffee
Lunch: appointment
Dinner: yoghurt with muesli
Snacks: 2 slices of low fat cheddar cheese + 1 fruit
Water: 2 to 3l

EDIT: at this stage, i'm unsure if it would still be of any help if i have meal plans all written out in advance... i've deviated so much since sat by munching on too much snacks. BLAH!

[Tuberose]

the last post on the previous page (pg4) with 2 meal plans written... well if you want, i've updated it. first day went well with no deviations, the weight diff reflected on the next day was a loss of 0.3kg. the next day came... pretty much able to stick to the plans for main meals but munched too much on biscuits, crackers, muesli, fruits, cheese slices, chocolates and biscuits well, i lost another 0.7kg, pretty happy about it.

last friday i had 2 meal appointments, ate alot and gained weight again! It's just so easy to gain weight, isn't it? obviously i din have any meal plans wirtten for that day. i wanted to "make up" for it over the weekend... so i thought. again, i pretty much able to stick to the plans for the main meals... however, my downfall & weakness come from munching on nonsense!

on sat, again, i ate more crackers, cheese, fruits, muesli than i should! even ate a few sticks of satays (something like kebabs), a rice cake, buns & more almonds! i like to munch too much!!! by night time, i felt so guilty that i skipped my "planned" dinner... came the next day, no loss/gain on the scale... yesterday (sun), i managed to keep to the plans for all meals and again, i let the snacking monster had the better of me... though a little more "controlled", still snacked on more of everything i should on fruits, crackers, muesli & cheese!!! the price: a mere 0.1kg loss!

the stuff i could kind of control are chocolates and snacks that i would only eat after they are chilled inside the fridge! as long as i don't take them out of the cabinet into the fridge, they are pretty much untouched! since yesterday, i have given away some snacks and biscuits I've bought and stored, to my other family members. the rest, i have asked my mum to hide them away!

well... this morning, after having two eggs, i felt hungry still... ate 10 small crackers at a go!! feeling pretty disgusted with myself! i pray that i will have enough will power to abstain from crackers totally & have less cheese & fruits for the rest of today!

i can't really figure out why i could exercise so much self control during the programme and now just struggling so badly to control myself from snacking away! just can't figure out why!!!

i have meal appointments again tomorrow & the day after... not the best arrangements to level off the weight gained . anyway, i don't really feel good about having so much eggs in the morning lately... i think i'm going back cohen's (without weighing) from this thursday onwards & will see how it goes!

sorry for ranting off so much & hope to update again on my progress, if any! so much for now.

[Kristine..]

Hi Tuberose

Remember what you learnt on Cohens, and how the foods are designed to inhibit insulin response.

This is the key to it all.

There is no problem having crispbread as a snack, provided it is no more than two at a time. There is no problem with having cheese, provided it is 'enough' cheese to provide sufficient protein to inhibit insulin response.

You are better off having an actual 'snack' rather than having 'something to munch'

It is important to sit down, pay attention, eat whatever it is, then go on with what you were doing.

It is no surprise that obesity has crept into the population as more and more people work - and eat - at their desks.

When people worked in factories and/or in regulated workplaces, they 'ate by the bell'. Starting time, 'ring' morning tea, 'ring' lunch time, 'ring' afternoon smoko, 'ring' home time - mainly crowded public transport - and it was considered impolite to eat on the bus!

Nowadays, people have coffee, snacks, full meals, while working at their desks. We have become a Nation of grazers!

Reading your post, I wonder how you found the time to do all that eating! If you are at home, go back to the planned timetable of eating, and stop to eat. This brings the focus to the action. Make a drink, put the food on a plate, go and sit at the table etc If you are at work, eat only at tea breaks and leave your desk to do it. Don't have food with you particularly when you are concentrating on something else eg watching TV, working at the computer.

Remember that protein is your friend, and will satisfy you. If fruit triggers insulin response, then eat fruit as part of your meal or snack and not separately. DRINK WATER. Eat three meals each day, even if you have been eating snacks all day, don't skip a meal.

When you are eating out it is often hard to choose appropriate food. I had two Christmas events on Friday. I ate the steak at the lunchtime event and the fish in the evening. I wasn't hungry but was enjoying a couple of glasses of wine so made sure I had the highest protein meals available. The evening event included a cake desert which I ate and enjoyed, but on Saturday I avoided carbohydrates to compensate. Nonetheless, those two meals added 500grams to my morning weigh in.

This was probably due to drinking less water, the glasses of wine, and what was truthfully a huge amount of food in one day.

As I have previously posted, I stayed the same weight for nearly twelve months after Cohens, then hit a rough patch and now weigh five kilos more. That's about one kilo per month, 250 grams per week, 50 grams per day. The weight is going back on at the same rate I lost it during the program. Size 10 is not very forgiving and I am very uncomfortable.

However, I had twelve months of stability, and I consider that this was because I remembered and applied the lessons learnt on the program:

Protein, Water, Sleep and minimal carbohydrates. We really don't need separate carbohydrates - if our diet includes carrots and peas and fruit, we have more than enough to function at our best. Pasta and rice and potatoes and bread are just not necessary and should be seen as 'treats' rather than as food.

Now that you are lithe and slim, remember what it was like to be obese. It was awful. We don't have to become anorexic to maintain our weight. Nothing tastes as good as being slim feels. At 65 kilos I don't feel as good as when I weighed 60 kilos, the trouble is that these 'small' gains are glossed over, we can still look slim without actually being slim. I am back to wearing pretend clothing and I feel fatter than I did when I weighed 87 kilos.

Don't be frightened to eat, but eat appropriately. A handful of this and that will quickly undo all your good work. Most of the foods you have mentioned are junk - yes, even the meusli is junk! Stick with the cheese but eat it sitting at the table!!


Best wishes, be vigilant but don't be dismayed and don't beat yourself up. You will soon adjust and your lovely new body will be yours to keep!

Cheers

Kristine

[anniem]

Hi there

I understand what you mean when we are being so good and then it is hard to control yourself once you have something, i have found that i have not had choc for 130 days or something like that and i am worried about when i do i will not be able to stop. But i know now i can just eat the food we are meant to but with these lollies once i have once i cant just have one and i dont even really want them.

It is so ard i guess we just have to try do our best as many days as we can and have a little treat on two or three days.

Good luck with it it is very hard

Annie

[Tuberose]

Hi Kristine, many thanks for the wonderful insights and valuable advice! I agree that if we are not watchful, a little here and there can undo all the good work we have put in sooner than you can even realise it.

to answer your question about eating so frequently... i usually do that when i'm at home for dinner... that's why i mentioned that when i'm at work, i could be at having my goody breakie & lunch but comes dinner time i would munch and munch and munch....

during the programme, i remember that i used to treat meal times as sacred moments... thanks for the reminder, hope to revive that again!

and yes, having received so many positive feedback from colleagues on my transformation, i'm kind of under the pressure to not go overboard and allow the flabs to show again, it will be too embarassing! after all i can't avoid meeting them!

[Tuberose]

Originally Posted by anniem

Hi there

I understand what you mean when we are being so good and then it is hard to control yourself once you have something, i have found that i have not had choc for 130 days or something like that and i am worried about when i do i will not be able to stop. But i know now i can just eat the food we are meant to but with these lollies once i have once i cant just have one and i dont even really want them.

It is so ard i guess we just have to try do our best as many days as we can and have a little treat on two or three days.

Good luck with it it is very hard

Annie

yes i really do know what you mean that it's hard to stop at one sometimes... though i've been munching on crackers, biscuits, cheese, fruits, nuts & sometimes chocolates... apart from once or twice when i was outside having meals, i've not had pastries, bread & cakes or bought them home... i know myself too well... all these would make me put on weight easily with just a few bites, and i could go totally crazy on them! now that i'm still hovering around my maintainence weight with no buffer, it's a No No for me...

[meagain]

Tuberrose, still take your vitamins and keep up your water that helps with the nibbles.

[Tuberose]

i'm now still at the experimental stage toying between atkins, low GI & cohen friendly meals (abeit it's distorted version most of the time! ) .... i noticed if i exercise more control over my snacking habit and stick to protein & veggies for meals... weight could still come off. but i think because i still tend to have more of those snacks than I should ... the loss is humble... yesterday i had 2 eggs for breakie, yoghurt + muesli for lunch & chix/tofu soup for dinners, plus munching on crackers, muesli, cheese, nuts & fruits, but the amount is smaller than the past few days... my wt continued to drop a little more (-0.3kg). i think the total amount of food i had yesterday is about the same as the last few days of refeed...didn't have that awfully stuffed feeling.. feeling like 80 to 90% full by bedtime...

will continue to experiment...

[Tuberose]

Originally Posted by meagain

Tuberrose, still take your vitamins and keep up your water that helps with the nibbles.

thanks, i could forget about my vitamins since i completed my refeed... and it could be quite challenging to keep to my water intake when i'm out... but will keep that in mind!

[pandora]

Hi Tuberose

Now you know I LOVE YA dont you?? So looks like i have to be the one to state the obvious to you! Stop "mixing" eating plans! Today, you mention a blend of Atkins, low G.I. and Cohens! Last week you mentioned Atkins and low g.i. Why ???? Trust me, each one may work for some some of the time (apart from Cohens which works for everyone all of the time!) but you cannot cross pollenate these 3 programs AND expect to lose or even maintain yr weight (my opinion!). Why cant you?

ATKINS = High protein, high fat, very low carb
LOW G.I. = less protein, less fat, more good carbs like fruit and veg, bread, museli etc (i am not an expert of g.i. so just a rough idea)
COHENS = balanced protein, low fat, low carb

So if you mix atkins with cohens, recipe doesnt work as cohens has more carbs
If you mix low g.i. with atkins or cohens, too many carbs

If you mix all 3 as in yr meal plans you have muesli which cancels out any success with Atkins or Cohens and fruit which is not allowed on Atkins and so yr body is confused as yr insulin is going up and down (as per Kristine's post)

The moral of the story is, re-read your COHENS LIFESTYLE PROGRAM. It is designed to stand alone, with no further need for Atkins, G.I. tom dick or harry diet. Re-read the lifestyle program over and over and you will see that it is all in there. All the golden rules that will keep you slim trim taut and terrific.

• Dr Cohen as Kiristine pointed out, regards muesli as JUNK!
  Advises we NEVER again eat any cereal even muesli at any other time than in the evening as cereals, oats, muesli (all so called low G.I.) raise our insulin if eaten in the morning and IT STAYS UP ALL DAY! Horrific alarm bells should go off! Muesli is now in the enemies camp!
  Reread the list of signs of insulin having been triggered (hungry after meal, bloating, weight gain etc)
  Snacks between meals have protein (i.e. cheese)
  No more than 2 crackers then wait 2.5hrs
  Limit fruit to once a day IF ANY!!
  Etc etc etc

So build your lifestyle eating plan on the guidelines Dr Cohen provides. Forget the dead Dr Atkins and the G.I. guy, what if any success have you had in the past with there advice? If you are still unclear as to how to rebuild yr eating for life the Cohens way, come on here and ask for help from others of us on refeed or beyond, like Kristine, Meagain, Asy, me, Katrin, Baloo, etc.

Feels a bit tough this note to write but in a way i am writing it to myself as i know from my nibbling on crisps and nuts on the weekend that we "know" when we have crossed that line and our body has triggered the insulin. That is the very point of power, noticing what triggers it for us and then avoiding that food or drink like it is POISON. Remember, Cohens is a complete program and there is no need for any other "diet" you have the best in the world so go for it! lots of love to you, Pandora

[pandora]

Hey Tuberose

Havent heard from you since my last long winded note in yr diary last week! Hope i havent scared you off . How are you going? How did you manage christmas so far? Pandora

[Tuberose]

hi Pandora and all members on this forum, a very happy new year to you all!

P, i'm touched by your concern and well-intended advice... i'm certainly not offended or anything like that and sorry for not writing back for a while... been busy with work and the festive season, tho i still do log on from time to time to read a couple of posts.

i'm doing fine really and i could fully understand what u were trying to put across about mixing plans... actually come to think of it, i'm currently not 100% on any plan but on certain days, i do gear towards atkins or cohens (no weighing).

to be honest, though i've put back some weight due to many eating appointments last month, i'm not keen to go back to cohens 100% unless i'm seriously desperate. while i'm grateful that i've lost over 20kg on this programme, i do not wish to see certain symptoms again like ultra dry skin, dry hair, lesser hair (still dropping out), sluggish BM, missing periods (still missing), being less energetic & less mentally alert... more importantly, i seriously wish to give my mum a break from having to prepare my meals.

i figure that i'll go low carb but allowing myself to have higher amt of carb per day. so i've still been snacking on dark chocolate, roasted almonds, cheese, ham slices & cohen crackers everyday, sometimes i even allow myself to have up to 3 pieces of fruit as long as my main meals are high protein & very low carbo and i don't overeat... believe it or not, i could still lose weight. also i've been drinking coffee (low fat & sugar) almost everyday & that contains 15g of carb per cup.

so on days that my mum does not cook, i'll go cohens (no weighing) with the allowed snacks + almonds & dark chocolates. in addition, i'll allow myself to have 1 or 2 cheese slices & additional 1 fruit if i'm really hungry. when she cooks, i go kind of atkins style with eggs for breakkie then meat meat meat all the way with very tiny portions of veggies. i snacked on ham, deli meats & cheese mostly and tried to have max 1 fruit and no crackers. this way, i could still eat what my mum cooks and she does not need to prepare separately just for me. have been keeping largely to these two plans and in comparison, i realised i could lose more weight on cohens. yes cohens still wins but i appreciate the kind of flexibility while on atkins despite the slower or sometimes nil weight loss, at least i tend not to gain despite the higher fat content.

this month will be a crazy work month for me & i'm unlikely to meet friends for meals so i'll be able to stick to these plans and continue to lose the excess weight i've gained from the past weeks. for the past two days, i've been on these two plans i've described above and i've already lost 1.1kg in total

during this period i could understand my body better. while dark chocolate and roasted plain almonds seem to agree with my body, i still need to watch my carbs very carefully. for instance, there was a time i could not find my usual almond snack, i bot natural mix nuts & roasted plain cashew nuts instead and i realised i put on weight readily. upon examining the carb content, 100g of cashew nuts has about 19g of carb and the equivalent for almond only contains 4.1g of carbs! no wonder! since then, i've been weighing and portioning out my almonds to max 100g per day. this taught me to really look at nutrition chart very carefully. i also realised that taking coffee increases my cravings for more food & snacks especially crackers. tho i'm still not eliminating coffee, i've to consciously exercise more self-control

to sum up, when i don't eat out with friends, i'm still on low carb but trying to keep my carb intake higher than before to about max 150g per day. i find that my skin has improved heaps, my energy level is good and my mental alertness has improved too. but my bio cycle still has not returned & i'm quite worried

i think life after cohens is a journey of self-discovery. to maintain a slim body, it certainly requires self-control and discipline. i'm glad i've gone through cohens and it has made me not only more health conscious but also more disciplined. for the record, apart from those days when i ate out with friends & loved ones, i've not touched rice, pasta, cakes, fast food, ice-cream, fried or oliy snacks etc and most of the snacks that i've bought so much so that my two boxes of hanuta chocolate wafers have expired! booohoooohoo

yes this month will be a low carb month again all the way till chinese new year and my family cruise trip in feb. hoping to enjoy some freedom on those joyful occasions!

would prob update again for any new discoveries and thanks for your love Pandora

take care all!

cheers,
tuberose

[pandora]

Hi Tuberose

I am so glad to hear from you and how it is all going for you, wonderful update! The advice i gave you last time was theory and practical but i have to say, personally i do agree with you and did dabble a bit with Atkins during December as i felt a NEED for a wee bit more fat in my diet! So i revised my program just a bit to include slightly more protein, bit more fat and deleted my fruit and crackers. Did the trick and helped me now get back on track for the home run (i want to go 4kg UNDER low end of goal - which is wht you did i believe!).

And yes, you KNOW what you can and cant eat. Beyond refeed, we all need to take charge again and it is an individual and intuitional thing! Each one of us "knows" what works to stay slim, we just have to tune in to our inner wisdom! Enjoy the "other side" and keep in touch when you can! Pandora

[hexi2]

Hi There!

Just thought you might want to come over and start up a new diary in the maintenance diary section? We would love an update on how life is going for you post Cohens? There doesn't seem to be many post Cohens people still hanging about to share their wisdom and knowledge...would love to see you over there