Discussions in others Diary's

Cocopop · #1 10-10-2008, 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundaymorningstaple

... I didn't want to fan any flames as honesty doesn't go over here too well.

On the contrary, I think people LOVE the honesty on this forum, but no-one appreciates constantly being told they are a waste of time and that they have no right being here if they deviate.

There is a thing called a "bully", which is described as:

"A blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people."

There is also a thing called "diplomacy".... maybe some people could instill some of that into their honesty.

Don't kid yourself that it's the HONESTY that we don't like around here.

I wasn't going to say anything about this mess anymore, but since you brought it up..... again....

shell · #2 10-10-2008, 10:29

Hi cocopop,
I have never on here seen anybody being told that "they are a waste of time and that they have no right being here if they deviate." let alone "constantly"

Where did you get that from?

SMS has been a great supporter & helpful to a lot of people on this forum and is allowed to have an opinion, like everybody else on here.
I can't for the life of me, work out how you can call him a "bully"!

You would not have this forum if it was not for the likes of SMS and others.
Shell

Cocopop · #3 10-10-2008, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by shell

Hi cocopop,
I have never on here seen anybody being told that "they are a waste of time and that they have no right being here if they deviate." let alone "constantly"

Where did you get that from?

SMS has been a great supporter & helpful to a lot of people on this forum and is allowed to have an opinion, like everybody else on here.
I can't for the life of me, work out how you can call him a "bully"!

You would not have this forum if it was not for the likes of SMS and others.
Shell

Shell - a few examples are below. People don't seem to understand that it is not WHAT these people are saying that is objectionable, it is the way they are saying it. They are putting a lot of people off and they need to tone it down or back off.

Quote: (Re deviators) Some people are just weak, and/or stupid. Doesn't mean we have to buy into it, and lend it energy.

Quote: What's more interesting is the "justifications" for deviations. Frankly, there aren't any justifications for it.... Self-gratification before common sense.

Quote: Deliberate deviations during the program just tells me a person is weak.

Quote: If you continually deviate you are wasting your time, my time and everybody else's time who posts into your diary trying to help you.

Quote: But this is not a pity party. This is a forum to support those who REALLY WANT TO LOSE THE WEIGHT AND REMAKE THEIR LIFESTYLES into a healthy one.

Quote: If you deviate, you're not on the programme. If you're not on the programme, you shouldn't be in a position to pass judgement on the Cohen's programme.

Quote: If you deviate often ... don't kid yourself that you are on the Cohen's programme. You're not.

Quote: For Cohens to work, you need to be deviation free. If you are deviating... then you are not on Cohens. If you're not on Cohens, what are you doing here ?

shell · #4 10-10-2008, 11:16

Not one of them actually said anybody is a "wast of time", it is saying that by deviating their actions are a wast of time.
Shell

Andy46 · #5 10-10-2008, 11:50

I am going to move some posts to here out of peoples diary's as they are hi jacking someone else's space.

Try and keep "Personal Diary's" as they are and start new threads if it is going to be a general discussion about non personal matters.

Andy

Andy46 · #6 10-10-2008, 14:30

I must agree with you Shell - I cant see where any of those posts are referring to anyone in particular. Of course it always how you choose to interrupt things that makes the difference as well.

They are all true statements that you have put there Cocopop and apply 100 % to a Cohens plan - I think you have done well to find them and Cocopop it must have been some reading for you.

The main thing is that we learn and move on - we can't live in the past or use the past as an excuse not to go forward.

We must make anything that appears to be somewhat negative into a positive learning step and move forward for greater success.

Andy

Cocopop · #7 10-10-2008, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy46

I must agree with you Shell - I cant see where any of those posts are referring to anyone in particular.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy46

They are all true statements that you have put there Cocopop and apply 100 % to a Cohens plan - I think you have done well to find them and Cocopop it must have been some reading for you.

We really seem to be just going around in circles, but the fact of the matter is that they aren't referring to anyone in PARTICULAR, just to deviators in GENERAL. So these posts ARE generally directed to those who DO deviate, so they take it personally. I take it personally, even though it isn't directed directly at ME, and a LOT of other people have taken it personally too, even though it hasn't been directed directly at THEM.

You can rant and rave about deviators and who is it directed at? Deviators! Basically, if you are a "deviator" those comments are directed at YOU.

It doesn't surprise me that you find them all to be "true" statements Andy - you have already told us "girls" to "cut the rot and rubbish", so it's obvious where you stand.

And it didn't take a lot of reading to find them - they can all be found in two threads and all of them except for one were made by TWO people, so no, I didn't trawl for hours through thousands of posts searching for them.

If everyone wants to let this topic die (like I thought it was) then stop making veiled jibes such as the "honesty" jibe that started this one off and just let it go.

shell · #8 10-10-2008, 15:32

It just seems to be you Cocopop who won't let things "die".

"and a LOT of other people have taken it personally too, even though it hasn't been directed directly at THEM."

If these "other people" have taken it personally, let them speak for themselves.
That is what this forum is all about

Shell

Barczar · #9 10-10-2008, 15:40

So what's your problem then?

The comments are all valid and are directed towards deviators in general whom should read then re-read and then re-read and then act on it anyways! So what's the point of this thread?

This topic a lot like deviation on this programme in general is like a dog screwing a football - lots of action, but what is actually getting accomplished?

This will be my last post on this topic...like I said before - For those who want to deviate etc I say "Let Them Eat Cake!"

Cocopop · #10 10-10-2008, 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by shell

It just seems to be you Cocopop who won't let things "die".

"and a LOT of other people have taken it personally too, even though it hasn't been directed directly at THEM."

If these "other people" have taken it personally, let them speak for themselves.
That is what this forum is all about

Shell

I'm more than happy to let it die but when someone makes a veiled jibe about how some people don't like honesty on here I'm just setting the record straight.

The "other people" can come on here and speak for themselves if they want to - I'm not speaking FOR them, I am speaking for myself and am letting everyone know that I am not the only one who feels this way.

I'm sorry if that offends you, which it obviously does.

Cocopop · #11 10-10-2008, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barczar

So what's your problem then?

Forget it! I feel like I'm in a mad house!

Cocopop · #12 10-10-2008, 15:55

It's funny how the only replies are from those who disagree with me - if only all the PM's I received were public posts.....sigh....

shell · #13 10-10-2008, 16:17

"Shell - a few examples are below. People don't seem to understand that it is not WHAT these people are saying that is objectionable, it is the way they are saying it. They are putting a lot of people off and they need to tone it down or back off."

So it is ok for some people to support & help others on here, but it's not ok for them to point out to them that it makes it much harder to do the program if you are deviating?

I don't understand your negativity towards people who are trying to help others-even if in "your" opinion they are not saying to "your" liking?

As I said before, if someone has a problem with what is written in "their" diary, I am sure they are adult enough to respond in what ever manner "they" see fit.

Shell

Andy46 · #14 10-10-2008, 17:01

As an administrator on the forum I would be happy to handle or speak with any person that has a problem and if they wish to P/M myself or any of the administrators it will be dealt with privately - or if Cocopop you wish to on forward the P/M that are concerned to me or any other of the Administrators or moderators they will be dealt with accordingly.

The same applies for every single person on the forum.

If they have a problem with a post it is only a matter of reporting the post that you find offensive or out of order to the correct persons who are the moderators and the administrators of the forum.

Andy

SOON TO BE · #15 10-10-2008, 17:03

OK I wasnt going to enter into this, but I have...

Do I believe cohens works.....YES
Do I want to make this work....YES
Will I lose the weight........YES
Do I believe you need to be 100% to get the full benifits from cohens...YES
DO I admire those who were able to be 100% deviation free..YES
Do I wish I had been 100%....YES
Do I think we are all entitled to our opionion....YES
Is weightloss and regaining my life and health the most important thing about this journey....YES.
Do I appreciate support given on this forum.....YES
DO I think weight loss is about much more than the food
Have I made mistakes...Yes
Am I trying my darndest to correct the issues beyond the food....YES

Have I been 100% deviation free......NO
Am I proud of this ...........No
Did I plan for it..........No
Have I given up...............No
Do I feel comfortable about being honest in my diary.....NO
Does this forum have the same feel about it, that it had 3 months ago when I joined.....No
Do I think its OK to continually deviate....No
Do I believe we are doing cohens if we continually deviate....NO
Do we truely understand what is going on in others lives...NO

I havnt heard of many deviators coming on here saying that they are happy and excitied about their choice,to deviate.

Yes I have had small deviations, skipped meals, guessed weights, a few tastes of things and one glass of wine. I have slowed this journey down alot because of these, of course I have,
but.... I have lost 25kg in just over 3 mths, I am proud of that and am not going to be made feel ashamed about it because it wasnt 100%.
Do I want people to tell me my deviations are OK,... no I dont ...because they are not Ok. Will I agian give myself permission to deviate....I hope not but I cant make any promises.
But my life is my reality and what has happened has happened

DO I wish this continual battering of personalities is needed to make this forum work and continue giving the valuable support that it gives
.........................I dont think so...................

TARA

Ronky · #16 10-10-2008, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOON TO BE

DO I wish this continual battering of personalities is needed to make this forum work and continue giving the valuable support that it gives
.........................I dont think so...................

TARA

Thanks Tara.

I agree with this. It really does bring a lot of us down. I live on this forum at work and when I look at a bickie I come back and look at this forum. I feel everybody is valuable here and when the last thread was happening and got nasty I had to jump off. Each time that it was at the top of the list I shut the forum down straight away. I stopped reading the thread but just seeing it was enough to make me uncomfortable. It would be great if there are issues they are left to P/M's so as to not try and create "sides" in our forum community.

I am very honest in my diary becasue I get the support I need. It stops me from eating that lolly or drinking that beer. Because I know that I will write it down and I dont want to read back at the end of my journey and find I didnt learn from previous mistakes and end up back on the program in 12months time.

Thats how I like to work anyway.

Good luck everybody have a great weekend.

enough! · #17 10-10-2008, 18:34

Quote:

If these "other people" have taken it personally, let them speak for themselves.
That is what this forum is all about

Those people have shut their diaries ......and dont feel welcome anymore

Andy46 · #18 10-10-2008, 19:09

OK lets move on and be happy and support each other - if you want to talk about things lets try and see the light and focus on the end - always take a negative (deviation) and lets see how we can help each other and turn it into a positive (helpful suggestion) so that someone reading this thread my get some assistance - so no more finger pointing at who said what and who was offended and who fell down the stairs when they didn't tie their shoe laces up ----- show a path way to a better new you - make a positive and helpful suggestion - and move on.

O K - the line is drawn ............. so lets move on and be happy. If you want help ask and be helped.

Lets support and be friends as we should be !!!!

Andy

shell · #19 10-10-2008, 19:51

I would like to remind everybody that this is a public forum, and that everybody is entitled to their opinion.

If you don't like reading these threads-then don't read them, easy.

Those who want to reply do, and it is good to have different opinions, that is what life is all about.
How boring would it be if we all had the same opinions.

Shell

KitKat · #20 10-10-2008, 20:51

Not backwards in coming forwards - I'm just going to copy something I wrote after the first distasteful Deviation Rant Thread Started

Well the weekend reading on the forum was interesting and as this is my diary to speak my piece I will reiterate what I said on a certain thread. I don't believe in making judgements about people whose lives I know very little about – or their motivation, conviction and commitment to the program. I agree that this program works and there are clear guidelines to be followed to get the maximum benefit. However, for some of us life can be difficult enough without the added emotional roller coaster of obesity. Some people may find that they have found the 'mental edge' to stick to this program 100 % - which is fantastic - but I'm sure that it took trial and error and failures of previous weight loss experiences to get to this point and succeed. If that 'mental edge' could be packaged and sold than obesity would not be the epidemic it is today and the program would probably be a lot more expensive. I think we need to remember the plan is a tool only.

So I don't have a problem with anyone who is doing ‘Cohen’s’ with sincerity and honesty, in good faith and with hope that this will be the turning point in your life – whatever reason you are doing this for – and - if you happen to fall over a few times in search of your 'mental edge', as long as you assess the fall, try to understand the reasons, your feelings and future preventions than you are one step closer to 'the mental edge' that some have found. If it takes a few stumbles to get get there, if it takes longer than the 100 % deviation free journey would - so what - as long as you get there and find the inner peace that being healthy will give you. I don’t prescribe to placing timeframes and conditions on my encouragement and support – as long as you get back up and keep going.

Personally, someone very dear to me is slowly killing herself with her obesity – which she acknowledges with desperation. Her added health problems are now extreme, and the economic consequences because of her weight have destroyed her previous lifestyle, she no longer can work and has had to move away from her family, but, it is her self-imposed reclusion and breakdown of relationships because of her fear and self-loathing that is most distressing to me. This person has probably experienced more trauma and grief in her 45 years than most people could imagine. This woman would on paper have every reason to find a weight loss program like Cohen’s and to make it work – but she can’t make it happen. She has had the support of many professionals, psychologists, caseworkers etc – and even they are not able to break through her experiences and issues and help her. The reality is that some people due to their personal circumstances may never find that ‘mental edge’ -or it may take longer than some –and some will need professional support for life - but without knowing their circumstances I don’t want to be responsible for demoralising any hope or self esteem they may have to succeed.

For those that support the No Deviation Stance' - your conditional support is questionable on many levels. Cohens is a tool that can only work if emotionally and mentally you are are ready - or willing to learn as you go. In all honestly how many people go through life being successful at something first time? Not many I would say. My hat goes of to people like Tara who has addressed her journey with honesty and sincerity and with great humility - and has never given up. Thats what I call successful - and by the way - Tara and I have beenon Cohens about the same time - I have been 100 % deviation free and she's winning the weightloss race - not to shabby for a 'deviator' I would say.